wowyzowy12
1 post
Jan 21, 2011
9:29 PM
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Hi,
Im a beginner/ intermediate player whose got the blues scale down and i keep working on it and trying to figure out classic melodies and riffs by ear although it can fustrating. latley i noticed that some melodies contain the 6TH the 5 hole BLOW , i was wondering of somebody can explain to me how that Note works into the blues and What other notes can i use besides the blues scale while playing blues ?
Id really appreciate any answer or advice
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wowyzowy12
2 posts
Jan 21, 2011
9:31 PM
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The TOPIC" WAS WHAT OTHER NOTES CAN FIT IN PLAYING THE BLUES BESIDES THE BLUES SCALE" - (IT WAS CUT SHORT)
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HarpNinja
1006 posts
Jan 22, 2011
7:01 AM
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In 2nd position, don't play the 1OB, 4OB, or 8 blow bend over the I chord. Otherwise, they can all be used.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
Updated 1/11/11
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Jim Rumbaugh
378 posts
Jan 22, 2011
8:02 AM
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I have asked about that 5blow in previous threads and have not received a definitive answer, so here's my take on it.
Personally, I play a riff with the 5 draw, if the 5DRAW SOUNDS GOOD, I play a blues scale with the classic blues scale notes, Yes, other notes can be played, but beginners will find these notes "safe". I personally throw in the 2nd and 9th degree of the scale A LOT, because I like them. (in second position, add 3draw whole bend and 6 draw)
IF THE 5DRAW SOUNDS BAD, I play major pentatonic scale with the 5BLOW. At this stage of my playing, it's an either or strategy. HVYJ is a good source for learning major pentatonic scale.
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intermediate level (+) player per the Adam Gussow Scale, Started playing 2001
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hvyj
1161 posts
Jan 22, 2011
8:32 AM
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@wowyzowy12: The sixth (5B in second position) works, (among other reasons) because it's a chord tone. It's the third of the IV chord and the thirteenth of the I chord. The Mixolydian scale/mode also works (which is a do-re-mi scale with a flat seventh) and the sixth is in that scale.
Playing blues one uses the blues scale of the key you are in against all 3 chords. But DON'T BE SCALE BOUND in your playing. Chord tones also work and are important.
Last Edited by on Jan 22, 2011 8:33 AM
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hvyj
1162 posts
Jan 22, 2011
8:42 AM
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@Jim Rumbaugh:"IF THE 5DRAW SOUNDS BAD, I play major pentatonic scale with the 5BLOW. At this stage of my playing, it's an either or strategy."
Not a bad strategy. For years i divided up the musical world into material that fits with a minor pentatonic scale, a blues scale or a major pentatonic scale. You can get an incredible amount of mileage just knowing these 3 scales and when to use which.
But, as a practical matter, what you are doing when to test to see if the draw 5 fits, you are determining whether the tune uses a flat 7th (D5) or a major 7th (available in second position only as D2* unless you OB). If a tune uses a major 7th the major pentatonic scale works because the seventh is not included in that scale. But since the 7th is omitted, that scale can also be used on material that has a 7bth if you like how it sounds on the particular tune. And, as you say, it is, of course, a "safe" scale to use playing material that has a major 7th
Last Edited by on Jan 22, 2011 9:38 AM
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hvyj
1163 posts
Jan 22, 2011
9:02 AM
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There's a variant of the major pentatonic scale that some musicians call the "major blues scale" which is not a term I use or like. The major pentatonic scale (in degrees of the scale) is 1 2 3 5 6. To play the "major blues scale" you can add 3b which makes it 1 2 3b 3 5 6. Very usable for playing blues BUT, watch out on the IV chord--either don't use this scale on the IV chord or stay off the major 3 if you do.
John Coletrane uses this scale on some of his recordings, but it's by no means only a jazz thing.
BTW, the 5b can be used for inflection playing major pentatonic and it usually works pretty well, and especially so if you are playing blues. If you are playing major pentatonic scale the addition of 3b with movement from 3b to 3 also works on a lot of non blues material.
Last Edited by on Jan 22, 2011 9:05 AM
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hvyj
1164 posts
Jan 22, 2011
9:14 AM
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Tip for playing blues: If you bend notes, it generally sounds better for blues if you hit the note bent and release it up instead of bending it down. Of course it also sounds pretty good just to hit the bent note dead on pitch, without releasing it.
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Jeffrey van Kippersl
6 posts
Jan 22, 2011
9:53 AM
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Gime more, Im eating this like cheesecake, this is the theory I need....
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Bart Leczycki
13 posts
Jan 22, 2011
10:32 AM
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In my opinion we could play EVERY note, but we should know what we play and why :o)
On start we could play only root note for every chord (1).
2nd level: we play only notes from right chord (1,3,5,7)
3rd level: we play minor/major pentatonic (and 5b)
4th level: we play right scales for every chord (mixolydian, eolian, altered...)
5th level: we play every notes (I mean with chromatic steps).
I think that every note could be right, if you know how to finish right phrase.
Have fun!
==============================
www.myspace.com/bleczycki
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Jeffrey van Kippersl
7 posts
Jan 22, 2011
10:35 AM
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Are u saying if you scramble up a couple of notes and now how to work you way back to the chord the bands at your alright?
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hvyj
1166 posts
Jan 22, 2011
10:49 AM
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Well, if we are talking about just BLUES, major 7ths don't ordinarily work for blues and flat sixth isn't used for major key blues. Also, certain modes won't be consistent with the blues idiom, and in blues one does not play the scale of each chord as one does in many other styles of music (I'm not talking about jazz blues, I'm talking about blues blues).
So there's what WORKS and then what works for a particular STYLE of music. There's certain conventions peculiar to the idiom. One can certainly deviate, and there's nothing wrong with being creative, but there are certain things you've got to pay attention to if you want your blues playing to sound like blues.
One does not necessarily have to play blues in a traditional style, but it's not a free for all or you get out of the idiom. BUT although you are using the blues scale of the key you are in against all of the chords your playing does not need to be and SHOULD NOT BE scale bound.
But, as Bart is saying, where you go is not as important as where you start from and--most important--how you get back (resolve).
Last Edited by on Jan 22, 2011 10:53 AM
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Jim Rumbaugh
380 posts
Jan 22, 2011
10:52 AM
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So I'm a level 3+ player on the Bart Leczycki scale AND Adam Gussow Scale :) or :(
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intermediate level (+) player per the Adam Gussow Scale, Started playing 2001
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RyanMortos
990 posts
Jan 22, 2011
12:54 PM
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Bart, thank you for the above post this answers some things I've thought about from time to time. Need to get myself to 4th level :D .
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~Ryan
"I play the harmonica. The only way I can play is if I get my car going really fast, and stick it out the window." - Stephen Wright
Pennsylvania - H.A.R.P. (Harmonica Association 'Round Philly)
Contact:
My youtube account
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Greg Heumann
1010 posts
Jan 22, 2011
9:31 PM
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I agree with Bart - any note works in the right context. He said it far more eloquently than I could (which pisses me off because english isn't even his first language.) ;)
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/Greg
Last Edited by on Jan 22, 2011 9:32 PM
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wowyzowy12
3 posts
Jan 25, 2011
2:38 AM
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@hvyj - Thanks alot for replying . Your answer was very concise and clear.
This is just for the example or exercise - i play the blues in the key of- G , on that root i can play the g blues scale + the chord tones of the g note - moving on to the vI chord (C )i can play the blues scale in the key of C and continuing on to the V chord (D) play the d blues scale . IS that correct?
the 5 BLOW- It's the third of the IV chord and the thirteenth of the I chord. - that im working out now
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hvyj
1178 posts
Jan 25, 2011
4:56 AM
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@wowyzowy12: Well, i guess you CAN do that,and in many styles of music you DO play the scale of the root note of each chord over that chord. But stylistically it is a fundamental characteristic of blues that when you play blues you DON'T use the blues scale of each chord. You use the blues scale of the key you are in against all 3 chords, but structure your note selection from that scale in relation to the particular chord you are on. (Jazz blues may be different.)
NOTE SELECTION IS NOT MECHANICAL. Since the 3b of the I chord is the 7b of the IV chord that note is a blue note in each of those chords, so, it's a good note to use as the music moves from the I chord to the IV chord. Playing major 3 of the key you are in is not a good note on the IV chord because it is a major 7 of that chord, but it works on the I and V chords. Even though it's not in the blues scale, the 9th of the key you are in often works pretty well because it lays nicely on top of the dominant (flat) 7th of the I chord, it is the 5th of the V chord and is the 13th of the IV chord. These are just some examples, but it's stuff like this that you take into account for note selection over each chord. But you PLAY WHAT SOUNDS GOOD AND FITS THE MUSIC AND HOW YOU WANT TO SOUND.
Some of the relevant note selection criteria are stylistic. For example, leaning on a major 6th may be very characteristic of gospel music and will sound good playing gospel, but isn't very characteristic of blues. So what WORKS and what works well for a particular STYLE of music may or may not be the same thing. The very best musicians can play convincingly in different styles. Of course, there are also great players who only play one particular style of music.
EXTENSIONS: Extensions are just the rest of the scale that was not used to build the basic notes the chord. Since the second is also a ninth, and a sixth is also a thirteenth, etc. you can theoretically use ANY note on ANY chord if you do it right and resolve it well. BUT, stylistically, if you are playing blues some things are more consistent with the blues idiom than others--figuring out where that line is becomes your style and determines whether you are a good blues player. Also, certain intervals may usually work better than others. For example, a flat ninth of the key you are in may not sound so good on the I chord or the IV chord, but may work on the V chord since it happens to be the flat 5th of the V chord.
Once you have sufficient control of the harp to be able to play pretty much whatever you chose to play, WHAT do you play? That's the most interesting question of all. Listening to instruments other than harmonica can be a rich source of ideas.
A lot of players just copy stuff from blues recordings, but it's certainly possible to be much more creative and original than that and still be playing in the blues style.
Last Edited by on Jan 25, 2011 5:31 AM
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colman
11 posts
Jan 25, 2011
5:45 AM
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you have a 12 bar blues,3 major chords,and the blues scale is minor with a b5.and you can play the major chord scale,mixed with the blues scale.BBking does it all the time.if you want to get jazzy,than you have to learn the modal scales for each chord.if you just play the blues scale that will work too ,albert king did it.the most important thing when soloing is how you lead into a change and resolve.do it to it...
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