jonlaing
180 posts
Jan 19, 2011
8:05 PM
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Hey guys, I'm feeling pretty comfortable with overblows 4,5, & 6, and now I'm trying to move up the scale into the overdraw range. The problem is, there aren't as many resources on how to overdraw. Can anyone walk me through the gist of how to get them? I tried using a similar embouchure to overblows, but I just get a horrific squeal (could just be the harp, but all of em seem to do it).
Also, overdraw on 8 unnecessary? I think I heard that somewhere...
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Roverharp
8 posts
Jan 19, 2011
9:12 PM
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As far as technique try really backing off the harp and imitate drinking through a straw. This is the antithesis of how to get good tone but it will help in producing the ODs.
Even with good technique the harp may well squeal unless you set it up.
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Todd Parrott
348 posts
Jan 19, 2011
9:25 PM
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The remedy for the squealing is a custom harp from someone who really knows what they're doing. The squeals on overdraws are tougher to get rid of than the squeals on overblows.
Many will tell you that the 8 overdraw is unnecessary, but this is NOT TRUE. While it is the same note as 9 draw, the difference is you can bend the 8 overdraw upwards, which gives you the same sound as you would get with a country tuned harp on hole 5 draw. I use and bend the 8 overdraw all the time.
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BlueDoc
24 posts
Jan 19, 2011
9:29 PM
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Jon,
I am also developing my overdraws; I have found a couple of things to be helpful. The first is Howard Levy's web page, "Getting the Overblows and Overdraws":
http://www.levyland.com/blowsanddraws.php
Levy's advice there for overdraws (using a tightly-gapped C harmonica) is this:
"Start with 7 draw, B. Try bending it down much the same way you would bend 6 draw. This isn’t a deep bend like 2 draw- if you were to pronounce the word “key”, that’s a similar mouth position to the one you need to overdraw 7. When you do it right, you will hear a note a whole step higher (C#) come out."
In addition to the suggestion of pronouncing the word "key," I have found it helpful to shape my mouth as though I'm sipping some liquid like soup or coffee that I know is going to be very hot, and trying to bring in only a thin stream mixed with enough air so I can cool it off in my mouth. I hope this image is helpful... for me it is a natural extension of a lifetime of bad table manners. :-) Inhaling a thin stream of hot smoke while mixing it with cool air, so as to enable holding it in one's lungs, might also be a useful analogy for some people. (Though I can't imagine why anyone would want to inhale and hold hot smoke in one's lungs... :-)
While doing this I attempt to adjust the resonance of my mouth to approximately what it would need to be if I were whistling that overdraw note without a harp. (I don't remember where I learned this tip; it may have been one of Chris Michalek or Jason Ricci's teaching videos on YouTube, or I may have read it somewhere else on the internet.)
Play around with gradually making the chamber of your mouth slightly larger or smaller. When the chamber becomes just the right size, the reed will activate and you'll hear the sound.
You don't need to suck very hard; the right resonance is what does it. If I suck too hard, I find that I'm likely to get the squealing sound you're talking about. (In my experience, getting the squeal is progress, by the way. Just back off the air pressure a bit and play around with the size of your air chamber.)
By the way, here is a link to Jason Ricci's YouTube video on how to overdraw:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbHH62w7_qQ
Keep at it; you'll get it. Good luck!
Mark
Last Edited by on Jan 19, 2011 9:31 PM
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BlueDoc
25 posts
Jan 19, 2011
9:40 PM
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I agree with Todd's and Roverharp's remarks about having the harp properly set up. If you know that the harp has been set up for overblowing/overdrawing, and that someone else (such as the customizer) has gotten an overdraw out of the thing, then you know that the rest is just a matter of your technique, and that you will eventually get overdraws too if you persevere.
Last Edited by on Jan 19, 2011 9:41 PM
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jonlaing
181 posts
Jan 19, 2011
11:39 PM
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Thanks guys, I was actually able to squeeze out a clean 7 overdraw on ONE of my harmonicas... I could feel some air leaking on the other ones, so when I get a chance, I'll emboss and gap the crap out of them to see if I can make it happen on the others.
Thanks again.
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chromaticblues
495 posts
Jan 20, 2011
9:00 AM
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@ jonlaing
I do it more with my tongue with the shape of my mouth. With a draw bend I don't have to involve my tongue at all. Only for effects, but with overdraws its like a draw bend with curling your tongue and snaping the tip of your tongue up and back toward the roof of your mouth.
I know its hard to explain! All I can say is use your tongue! I don't have a harp with me know, but I think I close my jar while doing the tongue thing. The opposite of a draw bend. When you do a draw bend you drop your jar. When you do a overblow you have to either open or close while doing the tongue thing. I'm at work right now and don't know for sure which way I move my jaw.
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harpwrench
426 posts
Jan 20, 2011
9:47 AM
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I raise my adam's apple a little bit but not my jaw, the tip of my tongue stays on the harp where it belongs, blocking holes! LOL
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Joe
www.spiersharmonicas.com
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chromaticblues
500 posts
Jan 20, 2011
10:04 AM
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Joe isn't it early to be drinking?
Last Edited by on Jan 20, 2011 11:44 AM
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harpwrench
427 posts
Jan 20, 2011
11:08 AM
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What do you mean
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Joe
www.spiersharmonicas.com
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chromaticblues
501 posts
Jan 20, 2011
11:47 AM
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I forgot the (it)!
I assume you are kidding, but maybe there is more than one way to overdraw. I don't think anyone does it with their tongue on the harp. I'm sure there is someone that does now that I said it though.
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harpdude61
676 posts
Jan 20, 2011
12:00 PM
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I'm with harpwrench. Don't change mouth shape or tongue position. It is all in the throat...although my tongue is down and back out of the way as a lip purser.
On the One Chord Backing Track thread, the video I posted has OBs on 4,5,6 and ODs on 7,10. I've got cleaning up to do and I'm using stock harps that I gapped myself, but I'm working on making them effortless.
I still think the ideal way, for me anyway, is to hold a big open embrochure and keep it the same for blow, draw, draw bends, blow bends, overblows, and overdraws. Do everything with the throat.
Watch Carlos and Jason. No way you could play those quick riffs using all the above mentioned, if you had to do an embrochure makeover between each note.
You should not have to squeeze out an overdraw or overblow.
Last Edited by on Jan 20, 2011 12:03 PM
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HarpNinja
1004 posts
Jan 20, 2011
12:09 PM
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I bend them just like any other bend...which, for me, is with my tongue. While Jason's video is helpful, it can put a lot of stress on your body. I think, to some, extent, he is exaggerating the "milkshake" piece. HOWEVER, I think when a harp is not set-up correctly to OD, a player may try using force to get it to pop. While this can work, it is again, not a very effective means to the end.
I play a lot on the upper octave. The ODs must not choke the draw note in a slur. The blow reeds must not choke when playing regular blow or blow bend notes. The draw notes must not choke when articulated.
The ODs are much more likely to squeak on an inferior OD harp. They are also hard to sustain and bend.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
Updated 1/11/11
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chromaticblues
503 posts
Jan 20, 2011
12:25 PM
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Once I figured out how to do it. Overdrawing is not difficult. All I can say is as easy as it is for me to do with my tongue, I can't imagine there is an easier way! I believe the advice I gave is helpful!
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RyanMortos
975 posts
Jan 20, 2011
12:28 PM
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Good thread. While I can overblow 4, 5, & 6 I haven't put any effort into trying overdraws but maybe Ill try this weekend.
I have put some effort into overblowing the 1 with only the success of gettin the blow reed to close. Have not got the draw reed going despite being able to on 4, 5, & 6. I was going to open my buddha harp & try to cover the 1 blow with my upper lip to take that from the equation but I seem to have misplaced the screw tool he sent & not sure how to get another. The 1 blow on the harp closes early (almost too early) so I suppose Im not opening my throat enough.
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~Ryan
"I play the harmonica. The only way I can play is if I get my car going really fast, and stick it out the window." - Stephen Wright
Pennsylvania - H.A.R.P. (Harmonica Association 'Round Philly)
Contact:
My youtube account
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harpwrench
428 posts
Jan 20, 2011
12:30 PM
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I TB every note I play including blowbends and all OB/OD notes, with the exception of 1 overblow. And I can TB that (left or right, doesn't matter), I just don't. U-block also works fine.
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Joe
www.spiersharmonicas.com
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jonlaing
182 posts
Jan 20, 2011
12:40 PM
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I guess my lack of experience and control is showing here, but how exactly do you raise your adam's apple? Is there a particular sound that does it? Like saying "ooo" or "eee"?
I am a lip purser mostly, starting to get into having TB and LP coexist, but I am most comfortable with LP. That said, I don't like using my tongue for bends or OB's, because it feels like I'm straining the reed. So, finding a way to do it more throat oriented would be optimal.
Thanks guys, this info is really great.
@RyanMortos What is this "Harmonica Association 'Round Philly" business? I'm living in South Philly now, and I don't know anyone else that plays within geographical vicinity of myself. Would love to hear more.
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RyanMortos
976 posts
Jan 20, 2011
1:03 PM
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Jon, hey that's cool maybe we should jam together sometime. H.A.R.P. is the harmonica club in Philly that has a bunch of guys that get together, jam, talk (harp) shop, etc. I will email you with more details.
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~Ryan
"I play the harmonica. The only way I can play is if I get my car going really fast, and stick it out the window." - Stephen Wright
Pennsylvania - H.A.R.P. (Harmonica Association 'Round Philly)
Contact:
My youtube account
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shubham19
2 posts
Jul 14, 2016
2:40 AM
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do you need to set the harp for overdraws like overblows.? What is the theory behind overdraws..? i mean, in order for an overblow to pop up, the blow reed chokes up and the draw reed sounds. Is the theory same for overdraw also. ?
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John M G
58 posts
Jul 23, 2016
5:33 AM
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a great post, I've been able to set up an old Lee Oskar and have made good progress on overblows on 4,5 and 6, especially on hole 6 though I've got nothing on hole 1.
Overdraws have been another story altogether but now I have a much better insight where to start with overdraws which have been something I just haven't been able to make any progress with at all.
Thanks for all the input and knowledge that's being shared here.
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