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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
cornell west and white blues men
cornell west and white blues men
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walterharp
520 posts
Jan 19, 2011
7:06 PM
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Last night on the Colbert report, Cornell West suggested that Bob Dylan, Bruce Springsteen, Tennessee Williams, and Stephen Sondheim were "white blues men". An interesting comment from one of the most well known African American scholars of today. Colbert suggested that Michael Bolton was one, and West ducked around that one :-)
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Greg Heumann
1004 posts
Jan 20, 2011
9:57 PM
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Rick Estrin, Charlie Musselwhite, Kim Wilson, Deak Harp... all fit the "white blues man" title better than any of those guys. Not to take away from their talent, which is immense - I just don't see them as blues oriented in general. (Yes, I know Dylan has some blues tunes on his latest CD.) I know Charlie and Rick's stories pretty well - they lived it, they play it and they sing it.
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/Greg
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5F6H
485 posts
Jan 21, 2011
1:30 AM
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+1 on what Greg says, it's difficult to perceive the context in which West made that statement.
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MrVerylongusername
1507 posts
Jan 21, 2011
4:00 AM
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Not having seen the show, or read up on West's stance I can't do anything other than speculate, but here's my humble 2p - apologies in advance to those who dislike discussions about race and culture. Look away now, there's no avoiding it on a thread like this.
I struggle to see how the comment could be literal. I think the point was more about how those artists 'fit' into the cultural landscape.
I think the comment is about connecting with your audience with a shared culture.
The old blues artists were (mostly) black people playing music of black origin that connects with the lives of a (mostly) working class black audience.
Springsteen and Dylan are white artists playing white music that connects with the lives of (mostly) working class white people. The same could be said of the lyrics of Sondheim and the writings of Williams.
Kim, Estrin and Musselwhite are all white performers playing music of black origin to (mostly) white people.
Forget the words 'blues' and 'bluesman' in their literal sense, they are being used metaphorically.
Oh, and I do realise that Dylan and Springsteen are both millionaires, but like the blues artists of old, their economic status has been elevated by their success. Their roots are genuine which is why they can write with authenticity.
Last Edited by on Jan 21, 2011 4:01 AM
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kudzurunner
2271 posts
Jan 21, 2011
4:17 AM
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Oh boy.
West has an interesting set of ideas, and he's certainly not a black nationalist in any conventional sense; he co-authored at least one book with a white guy. He believes in dialogue and the arts of persuasion. I'll never forget the way he smiled, leaned forward, and tried to draw out Sistah Souljah during a wild and wacky TV forum on race relations back in the 90s. SHE was most definitely in the nationalist mode back then, but he wanted probing dialogue.
I get the Dylan/Springsteen equivalence, and I agree with VeryLong on that point. But I don't immediately get Sondheim or Williams. "Bring in the Clowns" does indeed blend wistfulness with epic transcendence, but still: so do half the songs on Broadway, and I wouldn't call them blues. Williams's A STREETCAR NAMED DESIRE is filled with the music of the "blue piano" and Stanley Kowalski does have many of the stereotyped habits of blues people (he drinks whiskey, plays cards, uses black dialect like "rebop," beats his wife, and wears loud shirts), but again: serious theater isn't a working-class pursuit. You might argue that Williams is the voice of self-dramatizing closeted homosexuals. In that sense, he's a white bluesman--but really he's a gay bluesman. I'll buy that.
Last Edited by on Jan 21, 2011 4:18 AM
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6SN7
146 posts
Jan 21, 2011
6:29 AM
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"They live it, they play it, they sing it." I think that's what Prof. West would say defines a bluesman.
That would put Williams and Sondheim very much in the front seat.
Don't let showtunes, millions of dollars and lack of blues music bog the discussion down! I bet Robert Johnson played lots of popular tunes of the day along with his gutbucket blues.
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walterharp
521 posts
Jan 21, 2011
6:50 AM
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a bit more context, and i do think that vrverylongusername hit it on the head. West was talking about confronting suffering, pain and hatred with tenderness...Sondheim specifically he mentioned music behind Sweeny Todd.
here is the interview.. it starts around 18 minutes and the comments are at 18:49
http://www.colbertnation.com/full-episodes/tue-january-18-2011-cornel-west
west also mentions being influenced by Checkov, Coltrain, Curtis Mayfield
i just found it interesting because we have had the discussion about a "blues man" here before
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ncpacemaker
188 posts
Jan 21, 2011
9:49 AM
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"they lived it, they play it and they sing it"Very true for KZR I believe. If any white guy ever earned his right to play the blues it's him. The whitest bluesman this side of Johnny Winter.
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