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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
conscious or subconscious?
conscious or subconscious?
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belfast_harper
211 posts
Jan 14, 2011
12:34 PM
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Richard Sleigh mentioned and book called the 'Magic of Believing' in one of his emails a while back, I came across a copy of the book the other day and started to read the first few chapters and it has got me thinking about the parts that the conscious and subconscious minds play in creating music.
I was watching a youtube video the other day where Jimi Lee said that he makes his best music when he is not thinking about what he is doing, I take that to mean that the music is coming from his subconscious mind.
When I am playing I am thinking about what I am doing, I am using my conscious mind to decide what notes to play over what chords and I am focusing on my timing ect. Sometimes I will play a lick and riff that I think sounds great and I don't have any idea where it came from, I assume that those riffs come from my subconscious mind.
I think with experience I will be able to rely less on my conscious mind when playing and I will be able to let go and let better/more natural music come from my subconscious mind.
I am interested to know if you think about you are playing or can you play with out thinking?
Last Edited by on Jan 14, 2011 12:39 PM
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ncpacemaker
154 posts
Jan 14, 2011
1:09 PM
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I think it's that left brain, right brain deal. When an artist is in that zone you know ? Like when someone's reading something they're really into and you can call there name several times before they hear you. Or when Michael Jordan used to hang his tongue out. If your thinking about the notes and whatnot, I don't think you're in that zone. The music just flows out when you're in the zone. That's subconscious.
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Last Edited by on Jan 14, 2011 1:12 PM
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hvyj
1083 posts
Jan 14, 2011
1:16 PM
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It may have to do with how regularly and intensely you practice.
True story: 20+ years ago when my playing was not as developed or proficient as it is now, I was sitting in regularly with an R&B band. i had a few years of experience under my belt and i was practicing consistently every day, and practicing pretty hard in a disciplined way. Mostly scales.
One night i was called up to play. We were on a big stage. and there was a good size crowd. The band was playing a hard rocking tune with driving horn licks. I played a fiery solo, better than i ever had before, and maybe better than i ever have since. Every note was right, phrasing was perfect, the crowd was dancing and screaming, the drums pounding and the horns punctuating the groove. It was a very high energy performance and the excitement it produced in the crowd generated even more energy. I felt very powerful and in total control. An incredibly positive, intense, thrilling experience, and a fully realized musical expression at a very high level of both technical accomplishment and artistic emotion.
And when the song was over, i could not remember anything i had played. i had achieved an unprecedented level of musical performance without any conscious effort and absolutely no recollection of what i had done. i remember this experience vividly to this day, but i have no recollection of any volitional action on my part. it was almost as if i was in an altered state of consciousness.
Afterwards, I spoke to other musicians about this. Some of them told me that intense practice had occasionally produced a similar experiences for them during performance. Since then, I would occasionally have somewhat similar experiences where i would find myself playing with unconscious abandon and playing very well, but never anything quite like what happened that night many years ago.
I don't know if it was a left brain/right brain thing or what.
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Greyowlphotoart
364 posts
Jan 14, 2011
1:17 PM
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What a good question. I think the more experienced the player is the greater his capabilities to play subconsciously. He has any number of riffs in his memory bank to draw from and can bring them out at will. He just knows what works and doesn't have to think about it.
Having said that I think it is many players ability to play subconsciously on occasions. I still remember a time when I was 17 and raw and enthusistic when I was jamming on harp with my mates on guitars and the session suddenly and unaccountably went into overdrive.
There was a temendous feeling of connection and I was that excited by this sensation I wanted to go further than my tired riffs would allow me all of a sudden I just thought to hell with it and just winged it with no real idea what I was doing and where it was going... and it just worked. My mates said afterwards what the hell happened there and I couldn't explain it or unfortunately replicate it!!!!
Sometimes it's worth taking a risk, it might work it might not. I think we play in a straightjacket on occasions worrying whether something will work or not and that restricts us. I know my son Dan who used to play with an excellent musically trained guitarist often used to throw in a curveball with his playing and the guy would say, what he did shouldn't really work - but it did.
It's that going out on a limb, like an improvising comedian who takes a wild leap on a theme and suddenly there's magic and he's on a roll..... or it could fall flat...exhilarating.
 Grey Owl YouTube
Grey Owl Abstract Photos
Last Edited by on Jan 14, 2011 1:19 PM
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Barry C.
123 posts
Jan 14, 2011
1:21 PM
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I think us newer players (or maybe just less skilled)tend to think too much while playing because we lack the muscle-memory, or at least we don't TRUST it. Ya i think it's more the trusting part...
By the way, if you liked 'The Magic of Believing' get yourself another great read 'The Power of Positive Thinking' on that same idea (sorry don't have the authors name handy).
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~Banned in Boston!
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tookatooka
2071 posts
Jan 14, 2011
1:23 PM
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I think you need to be a certain high level player like hvyj before the unconscious bit kicks in.
I don't think it can apply to just anyone.
Whoops! I meant subconscious. Bwah Bwah Bwah.
Last Edited by on Jan 14, 2011 2:12 PM
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hvyj
1089 posts
Jan 14, 2011
2:18 PM
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@tookatooka; i don't claim to be a high level player. And to the extent anyone thinks I am now, i can assure you that nobody would have thought so at the time of the experience i described in my True Story post.
I think it has to do with how much and how hard you practice so that muscle memory takes over and you start to hit the notes you want without having to think about it.
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toddlgreene
2519 posts
Jan 14, 2011
2:24 PM
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Whether it is conscious/subconscious, I'll ocassionally get in a 'zone' onstage, almost always accompanied by me closing my eyes, and just letting emotion flow out thru my harp. I can't explain it wehnit happens or predict it necessarily, but if the music's right, and I can hear what's going on, I just sort of drift into this...zone. I've seen lots of players do it. Zero premeditated riffs or notes-just a flow. And sure, I think muscle memory and some level of proficiency have something to do with this when it happens. This phenomenon, rare as it can be, is what keeps me braving the smoky bars, shady club owners and unpredictable drunks.
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Todd L. Greene, Professor of Meaningless Trivia
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7LimitJI
309 posts
Jan 14, 2011
2:42 PM
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At great gigs,it happens a lot, the subconscious kicks in,as hvyj and others say, it becomes easy and you feel you can do anything.
At average/poor gigs,everything can be hard work.
In the few studio recordings I've done.
Songs usually are 1-3 takes to get.Any more we stop and come back to it.
The singing improves with each take.Set pieces on the harp get better.
But I feel, when I'm totally improvising, the first take is the best.
As at each subsequent take I'm thinking about the good bits in the 1st take and trying to get them back.
I'm not flowing then,as I'm thinking!!!
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The Pentatonics Myspace
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Why don't you leave some holes when you play, and maybe some music will fall out.
Last Edited by on Jan 14, 2011 2:45 PM
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waltertore
924 posts
Jan 14, 2011
2:54 PM
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I am a person that is addicted to the subconcious side of playing so much I make everything up as I go along. I have gone so far as too build my own recording studio. In it I have the perfect vibe most everytime I sit down. When it is right I play and when it isn't I do something else. This is one reason I have quit playing live gigs pretty much. Most gigs that I can have lately are playing to audiences that aren't really audiences. They come to eat, drink, and converse. Is that a guy playing music over in the corner?? When the vibe is wrong, it is impossible to let Spontobeat happen. I am good enough to fake Spontobeat but have tired of doing that. I bet 50% of my gigs over the years were not very good vibe wise due to crap sound systems, no/uniterested audiences.
Anyway, I am so addicted to the spontaneous subconcious vibe that I am fine playing in isolation. I have learned that the good gigs I had over the years were from good vibes from the universe. The people in the rooms were simply channeling them so it is not exclusive to being in a club/festival performace to play to great audiences. All those good music loving spirits are everywhere if we let the subconcious guide us. Being in a physical place doesn't mean we can't travel to other places. I am a time traveler when I do my music and this is so cool because I get to play to the best listening audiences ever assembled, every night! Walter
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Last Edited by on Jan 14, 2011 2:58 PM
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