I've been a pussy...when it comes to playing 3'rd position. So I've desided to do something about it:) One of my favourite bluessongs is Done Got Tired Of You,from the Nat Riddles-cd. So I'm going to work on that (3'rd on A-harp) but I was just wondering if you people could give me some names on other bluessongs that have some nice 3'rd position playing. Doesn't have to be very fancy,but something I can start with:)
Summertime by George Gershwin and any minor songs could be nice to work on in 3rd
Edit: Try to play "The Work Song" in 3rd position, it 'll give you the opportunity to work a lot on the 3rd hole bends, try as much as you can to be in tune and make the notes believable (I don't know what is your level here)
---------- Never try to be as good as someone else, succeed to be the best player you can be!
Thanks for the tip.. I can bend,no problem.. I'm just not into licks and what notes to play where. I don't have any good ideas on what to play. So techically,I can do it. I just don't know the position:)
So you're a very good harmonica player, only 10% of the diatonic harmonica player have no issues with bending ---------- Never try to be as good as someone else, succeed to be the best player you can be!
Well,I'm not saying that I'm a very good harp-player..
I may very well have some issues with my bending. What I meant was that I can get the common bends,if needed. If a song demands a 3'rd hole,whole step bend,I can get that bend. Maybe not perfect everytime,but I can do it so that I'm able to practise the song..
So I'm not among the top 10% of diatonic players,and I probably never will be ;)
"23 hours too long", james cotton, is a slow burning 3rd position song, in fact it was the first i played 3rd on out live. if you are at all like me you will discover that 3rd fits in a lot of songs usually played in 2nd. exploring this can do wonders for your versatility on harp.
carey bell did some fine 3rd position in his time.
Oda- I have "Tough Luck" by Carey. Delta Time is Billy Branch doing a backup part with Carey in 3rd, Five Long Years is in 3rd, Big Walter Strut, and So Easy To Love You as well. if my memory serves! What drew me to Carey Bell initially was his easygoing laid back style. This still grabs me today.
To me chromatic harmonicas are made to be played in 3rd, but diatonics are very effective as 3rd position instruments as well.
Let me add, I do not use the button to get half notes, it's an area i have yet to learn. but even without the halfs a chromatic is a tremendous weapon for 3rd position blues. check out Carey Bell's Tough Luck to hear what I mean.
Many good tips here! I'll gonna check them out tonight :)
I've been studying 3'rd position all day,and I have to say,why the hell didn't I get into this stuff before...aaarrrrrgggghhhhh!!!
Hm,I think it's time for me to get a chromatic.. Would be real nice if someone could put up some desent chromatic harps worth buying.. Now,I don't have a lot of money so I have to aim at something in the mid-range at best..
Get a G harp. Play in 2nd. Figure out what notes you are playing. Get a C harp, play the same notes. That will be third position.
For a more advanced way to do the same exercise, get a C harp, play in 2nd. Figure out the names of the notes you are playing.
Figure out the numerical placement of the notes as they relate to the G major scale. For example, if your lick has the note 4 draw, that is a D note of a C harp. D is the fifth note in the G major scale, G A B C D E F# G.
Third position on a C harp is D. Find the fifth note in the D major scale, D E F# G A B C# D. A is the fifth note in the D major scale. Find A on your C harp. 6 draw is A. Play 6 draw. Repeat the process for all the notes in the cross harp lick, transposing it to the third position lick.
If the cross harp lick note is not a member of the G major scale, find the note in the G major scale that is one half step, or one keyboard note higher than the note you are searching for. For example, say you were trying to transpose the note in hole 4 draw bend, C#, aka Db. Is there a Db is G major scale? G A B C D E F# G. No, there is not. What is one keyboard note higher than Db? D is one keyboard note, or half step, higher than Db. Is there a D in the G major scale? Yes there is. D is the fifth note in the G major scale. So Db is one note lower, or flatter than the fifth note in the D major scale. We can therefore call it the flat fifth, usually spelled as 5b but sometimes as b5.
Next, find the flat fifth note in the third position scale, D major. D E F# G A B C# D. What is the fifth note? A is the fifth note. What is one note lower than A? Ab or G#. Where is G#? 6 draw bend. We transposed the cross harp note 4 draw bend to the third position note 6 draw bend.
If you do not know the names of the notes on a keyboard, this may help:
If you do not know the names of the notes on a C harp, this may help:
If you do not know the notes in the 12 major scales, this may help:
and this:
All of this should be enough information to help you take any lick you can play in second position, or cross harp, and transpose it to third position. If you need more help, let me know. Michael Rubin Michaelrubinharmonica.com
Last Edited by on Dec 26, 2010 9:44 AM
i have used hering 5148's for several years now. the hohner 270 to me is a leaky old dinosaur. the ho9hner chrometta 12 was what i started with and while it's over $100 i feel it's a very good starter chromatic. plastic comb, big holes, easy to play. for another $40 or so you could get a working class suzuki scx, which i plan to buy for my next chro. key of C is good as is a G. i prefer a baritone C since the lower register has more pleasing notes.
have yet to try any really cheap chromatics like the swan etc. i have not heard much good about them. if you want to learn chromatic i suggest you break loose and get a decent instrument. like buyiong a cheap guitar, a cheap harp offers extra headaches overcoming the built in shortcomings. i say it's better to get something that responds well since the learning curve is its own challenge!
Michael: Thanks! That's so much information that I'll be busy for a while :)
jbone: I plan on spending around $100-150. But I live in Norway and where I live there's not much to choose from:( So I have to buy over the internet,I guess..
By the way, each videos shown here is the beginning of a group of videos on each concept. They are numbered in order on Youtube so it should be easy enough to find them.
Thorvald... how are your draw octaves? They are very cool to play around with on the top end of the harp in third position. Almost anything you do works.
Go the Chrom Thor, like Jbone I've had a 270 since I was a kid but always felt it was not up to scratch. After a small amount of research I have ended up ordering a Seydel true chrom from Jim as i like the idea of the logical note progression, and lets face it, Chrom blues in 3rd just sounds so fat and awesome, I want a piece of that!! :~)
P.S. No way you're a pussy Thor, and how's MR's meat & potatoes eh? Fantastic theory!
Last Edited by on Dec 26, 2010 1:48 PM
Try learning how to play the songs you already know in 1st and 2nd position, Into 3rd position.
It will probably make a lot more sense to try and transpose what you know first as your ear will already have a strong familiarity with known melodies and will help you to get your way around 3rd position with much more confidence IMO. ---------- Big Blind Ray's YouTube Channel Mavis and her China Pigs
