Littoral
215 posts
Dec 12, 2010
5:20 PM
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Just watched Adams TB videos again
and needed to bring up something that
I think is an essential asset to TB.
-After I mention the humility in
Adams presentions -I appreciate it.
My point: the preceeding piece of
chord is what makes the TB single
note BIG. It's a split second piece of
the chord just before the note such
that you cannot discern the chord
but only the single note. TB the
3 blow on an A harp with a split
second punch on the 1-2 first and the
E jumps. This isn't different from Adams
take but emphasizes the intentional
use of the actual chord rather than
pieces on either side.
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Ant138
697 posts
Dec 12, 2010
11:38 PM
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Do you mean Tongue slaps and tongue pulls?
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http://www.youtube.com/user/fiendant?feature=mhum
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Littoral
216 posts
Dec 13, 2010
2:09 AM
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Slaps/Pulls, maybe, but those terms mean different things
to different people. I'm calling it a punch but either way the
point I'm emphasizing is the pre-note chord.
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arzajac
399 posts
Dec 13, 2010
3:07 AM
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But you can get that sound lip-pursed, too...
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Greyowlphotoart
208 posts
Dec 13, 2010
3:19 AM
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It's funny you should mention this, because I have been looking at this aspect myself recently i.e chord before note.
Just as a background to my point, I have dabbled with TB octaves etc., but have begun to realise that to change from a lifetime of LP to full TB is not going to be done overnight!! I have managed to isolate some single holes TB and some draw bends but it's not easy and I know it will take a lot of practice to develop the necessary modified mouth shaping and muscle memory.
At the moment I am reluctant to set out on this journey as I would prefer to spend more time developing my skill levels with my existing approach.
The problem is I really do like the sound of TB, the tone and especially the percussive nature of the style. So I wondered whether it would be possible to emulate the TB sound with LP and I have found that I can get a reasonable approximation by widening my LP embouchure to sound a chord momentarily and then narrow my embouchure quickly to grab the single note.
I don't suppose for one moment this is a new approach but it might offer up good possibilities for Lp'ers who don't want to go full TB to get a TB type sound.
I'm only dabbling with this at the moment, just noodling really but it does look promising. Has anyone else experimented with this?
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WestVirginiaTom
21 posts
Dec 13, 2010
4:33 AM
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Greyowlphotoart posted:
"The problem is I really do like the sound of TB, the tone and especially the percussive nature of the style. So I wondered whether it would be possible to emulate the TB sound with LP and I have found that I can get a reasonable approximation by widening my LP embouchure to sound a chord momentarily and then narrow my embouchure quickly to grab the single note."
Jerry Portnoy goes over this LP technique briefly on his instructional CD set. I've been toying with this myself. The sound is a little different than a TB slap. I think the difference is due to the notes that make up the initial chord. For example, in the TB version, you might play the 1-2-3 chord and "slap" the tongue to cover holes 1 and 2 to get the 3 hole single note. In the LP version, the initial chord would be 2-3-4, and you would narrow the embouchure to get the single-note 3. I suppose you could play the 1-2-3 chord with the LP, and then slide up to the 3 hole as you narrow the embouchure. I think I'll try that in my next practice session...
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Greyowlphotoart
210 posts
Dec 13, 2010
8:17 AM
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WestVirginiaTom posted 'I suppose you could play the 1-2-3 chord with the LP, and then slide up to the 3 hole as you narrow the embouchure. I think I'll try that in my next practice session...'
Yes, this is what I've been messing around with and even coming off 3,2,1 to the hit the 1 draw. Also percussively hitting any single note from the blow chords, though not getting that quite so percussive at present. Will try and post a sound sample when I get round to it. Anyway let me know how you get on with this technique.
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Ant138
698 posts
Dec 13, 2010
9:55 AM
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@Greyowlphotoart, keep persevering with TBing. I'm only a TBing convert of 6 months, before that a solid LPser(with a few octaves thrown in) for nearly 5 years. It took a couple of months for my muscle memory to finally give in and embrace TBing.
Its well worth it!!! you can't beat the rhythmic sound of that tongue slapping the comb for authentic blues and it beefs up your tone alot. You can get a substitute sound from LPing but it's not the same:o)
I'm not a 100% TBer yet but now i can do it i'm leaning towards TBing more and more, although it is nice to be able to do both and i think all harp players should embrace both methods equally, it can only improve your game:o)
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http://www.youtube.com/user/fiendant?feature=mhum
Last Edited by on Dec 13, 2010 9:57 AM
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Greyowlphotoart
213 posts
Dec 13, 2010
10:18 AM
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@Ant138 Aw now you've gone and tempted me again!! Couldn't even think about doing it on my metal combs though, feels as if my tongues being electrocuted!
When I started out I hadn't even heard of TB and it's only since I've returned to playing after a long layoff that I've become aware of this technique. I have to say the tone is great (I liked your recent vid posting btw.) and if I was starting to learn to play now I would go for TB. I have a fellow player (Shoulders on this Forum)who lives close by who now does everything TB, OB's OD's the lot and very impressive it is. As you infer though, versatility is the way to go by embacing the best of all techniques to become a more complete player offering different shades and flavours of playing.
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Littoral
217 posts
Dec 13, 2010
11:09 AM
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@ arzajac But you can get that sound lip-pursed, too...
Maybe, but I seriously doubt it.
This explains why:
@WestVirginiaTom…The sound is a little different than a TB slap. I think the difference is due to the notes that make up the initial chord. For example, in the TB version, you might play the 1-2-3 chord and "slap" the tongue to cover holes 1 and 2 to get the 3 hole single note. In the LP version, the initial chord would be 2-3-4, and you would narrow the embouchure to get the single-note 3. I suppose you could play the 1-2-3 chord with the LP, and then slide up to the 3 hole as you narrow the embouchure.
The slide up, as WestVirginiaTom puts it, is the only way I can think of to approach this LP. It’s not the same sound.
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Greyowlphotoart
214 posts
Dec 13, 2010
11:30 AM
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@ Littoral posted
'The slide up, as WestVirginiaTom puts it, is the only way I can think of to approach this LP. It’s not the same sound.'
I can manage to hit draw 3 like a slap without the slide, by drawing the 123 chord LP and then quickly closing the mouth aperture onto the 3 draw. The effect is very similar to the TB in a percussive sense, though there is a tonal difference on my early attempts the TB sounding more muted (in a good way than the LP), which might be resolved by taking the harp a bit deeper in the mouth LP than I normally do. I'll work on it.
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