quick hint: Seydel makes those valves 1.5-2mm too short. If you stretch the valve a bit - it will cover the slot right. ---------- www.truechromatic.com
jim, as i recall in another explanation from PT, the valves dont have to cover the reeds fully in order to work. in fact, ive seen a pdf document that shows nearly all the valves he uses, dont go all the way to the end... ---------- Kyzer's Travels Kyzer's Artwork
Is it better to leave the windsaver gap on a standard chromatic? Only used for 3rd pos blues playing. Thanks Cam ---------- Those Dangerous Gentlemens Myspace Youtube
Due to cutbacks,the light at the end of the tunnel has been switched off.
I don't like it that way. Reeds are more prone to unwanted vibrations, tone is not full. And with full-valving, it just makes no sense - draw reeds function the regular way if slot is not fully covered. ---------- www.truechromatic.com
OK--is the material you discovered to use a secret? I tried cutting some valves out of a moleskin material once--I never did get them to work right--but I'm still interested in this technique.
Can you tell us what the material is? I will understand if it is a trade secret. . . ----------
I dont play chromatic so I can't really say. Brendan takes off half the valves on his chromatics so that he can shade the notes easier. He sometimes bends down rather than use the slide...the result is a chromatic which sounds more like a diatonic. In my case (half Valving) the diatonic sound moves somewhat closer to a chromatic. Our duet CD "Back To Back" bears this out. You can hear samples at http://www.ptgazell.com/Recordings.html
PT ---------- "Life...10 Holes & 20 Reeds At A Time"
The material is called ultrasuede. You can buy sets of it at Seydel. Got to http://www.ptgazell.com/Seydel_Harmonica_Shop.html and follow the instructions.
PT ---------- "Life...10 Holes & 20 Reeds At A Time"
i bought some ultrasuede and valved an A harp myself. per the directions on PT's pdf file. My poor chice of glue shortened the life of it, but I was able to put in 4-5 days of good use before it failed me. I too, asked him the same question about the small gap at the end of the reed slot. I trimmed the valves slightly smaller than the reed slots as he'd shown in his example. having played a valved promaster, which DOES cover the slots entirely, i could tell some of the differences PT explains above, between plastic and his researched material. as far as the gap being that important? i cant say because of my relative inexperience, however the tone is just fine, and the draw reeds do NOT function in the regular way because of the miniscule gap. It plays just like my promaster but without the "buzz" that is associated with plastic windsavers. my humble 2 cents says, go with the opinions of the guy who spent a great deal of time doing homework on how to make it work the best, and who sits atop the rest of the field in showcasing its benefits. ---------- Kyzer's Travels Kyzer's Artwork
by the by, (an additional 2 cents) nothing is sweeter than hitting the 7 draw bend on demand, shading it, sustaining it, putting vibrato on it. NONE of which i can do OB'ing the 6 on my other harps...a week after i got my first valved harp, i felt like id taken a leap in time in my harmonica playing... ---------- Kyzer's Travels Kyzer's Artwork
what I mean is - if you valve both the blow and the draw leaving this gap - the draw bends in the lower part will be just regular bends, with muffled tone and volume. They will not be true valve bends.
Anticipating the question - yes, there's a point in going for full valving. No, it's not a Richter :) ---------- www.truechromatic.com
all this discussion is about half valving. draw 1-6 and blow 7-10. 10 valves on a 20 reed harp. i cant imagine what the heck it would sound like valving every reed. probably exactly how you describe it jim... ---------- Kyzer's Travels Kyzer's Artwork
There are different variations of ultrasuede... I bought some at a local JoAnn Fabrics, but it didn't seem to work very well.
I just ordered a couple of sets from the Seydel website... at first I could not find the "sets" of valves, so enter "valves" in the search box... then click on "Set of valves for half- or full valving".
And then under the "My Order" the valve type should be "PT Gazell Method"... $9.00 US per set plus shipping.
yeah but a half valved diatonic still sounds like a diatonic...like mojo, i went to JoAnns fabrics. I bought (or got for free) several kinds of ultrasuede to try. most sucked real bad, not knowing what i really needed...i bet i spent 5 hours that night looking for the right feel. some were too flimsy, others too thick. some had a weird coating on them, etc. luckily the kind that worked best for me i had a 3 foot piece of, so....theres no denying the do it yourself method comes with trial and error. bear in mind, i did all this prior to PT letting us all know his materials were available thru Seydel's website for $9 bucks a set. For the sake of saving a headache, nine bucks is a bargain. Ill go that route from now on. Seydel's harps are still out of my price range, I think I'll stick to valving my MB's...for now. ---------- Kyzer's Travels Kyzer's Artwork
Yeah...it's a nice deal cause the valves are cut to width already and I believe that there is enough to do like three diatonics. If possible try to go through my site since it helps offset my R & D on this project. Go to: http://www.ptgazell.com/Seydel_Harmonica_Shop.html and click on the Seydel logo and then put half valve in the search box that will take you to the right page for valve sets. Select PT Gazell Method in the order box. CHROMATIC PLAYERS WARNING!!!! This material does not work well on chromatics...I am trying to get Germany to make that clear on the website. They do however have valves that they use on their Saxony model Chromatics that work very well for that application. Thanks for your time and attention. Also thanks to Ken and Adam both good friends!
PT ---------- "Life...10 Holes & 20 Reeds At A Time"
I just ordered a set of valves, so I'm anxious to try them out. Any tips on what kind of glue to use? The article I read just said "contact cement"--but there must be a hundred kinds of that.
Thank you, PT for sharing your knowledge and time with us. . . ----------
I use Weldwood Contact Cement made by Dap. I only use a small amount on the valve itself...but you may have another method. Best of luck and let me know how it works out. ---------- "Life...10 Holes & 20 Reeds At A Time"
Kyzer is there any chance to give more details about the ultrasuede that worked for you , a photo( of the swatch) or some model number , color . Thanks in advance.
Last Edited by on Dec 02, 2010 8:47 AM
Hi Steve....I do use Equal Temperament tuning. I also sometimes leave the first three holes tuned to a compromise tuning so the chords sound richer. But mostly I use ET. ---------- "Life...10 Holes & 20 Reeds At A Time"
I checked out your YouTube channel. Awesome stuff there.
Many thanks for the reply. Are overblows still available? I know they're unneccessary, but I'm thinking they'll help me with transition from non valved harps.
That said, I've got a bunch of Lee Oskars that won't overblow. I've finally found a use for them. Yay!
Being relatively new to OB'ing I am now wondering if I should try a half valved harp - or perhaps try putting a valve or two on myself - just to see what the effect is like.
The pieces I've heard, of PT's and Alex P's are beautiful but tend to be softer, jazzier tunes. I'm wondering if there is any drawback to using valved harps with harder edged playing , electric blues etc.
On my playing I am finding the 6 OB an 7 OD the most usefull - with the 7 OD being more difficult to get quickly and consistently. The 6 OB would become a 7 draw bend if I understood the interview - and to get the 7 OD - I'm doing what on a valved harp?
I'm wondering how trick it is to install a valve - could one of you put a link to that PDF with instrucions. One last one for Jim - Does Alex use 1/2 valved harps only now ?- or does he still OB for some matereial?
I was also wondering if half valved harps are still suitable for playing blues harp (can you still get a Chicago type sound)? Do single reed bends (valved) sound different than double reed bends (non-valed)? ----------
This is almost off topic, but there was some discussion of leaving a gap on the slot might result in blow bends to not work...
With my Buddha harp I can actually draw bend the holes 7-10 almost as well as with half-valved holes. I guess the extremely tight embossing makes it behave the same way as half-valved harps..
falconer: It is possible that they will, and possible it may not. Of course it depends on the difference of the reed slots between the two harps. I would say you have a better chance that they WILL work, but you may need to do some trimming.
Last Edited by on Mar 29, 2011 11:01 PM