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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Learning curves - questions for the seasoned
Learning curves - questions for the seasoned
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TahoeMike00
141 posts
Nov 11, 2010
8:37 PM
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Just curious - for all of you seasoned blues players.
If you don't mind, provide a brief synopsis of your learning journey.
i.e. how long you have been playing, how much practice/playing did you do during your 'honeymoon phase' when learning to play vs. practice/play now.
What were your biggest challenges? Keeping time/rhythm?
And what would you say were your biggest milestones, such as learning the blues scale, learning a particular riff, complicated tongue blocking etc.
And last but certainly not least, what "well known" or standard blues songs or riffs would you recommend for a beginner to start learning.. and memorizing?
I realize this is kind of a shotgun question, but do the best you can ;-)
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The more I learn about harmonica, the more I learn how much more there is to learn.
Last Edited by on Nov 11, 2010 9:09 PM
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Littoral
184 posts
Nov 12, 2010
3:20 AM
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Lots to say because the quality of your questions say you are very much on the right path. I have taught a lot of harp and my initial rule is Buy a new one when you lose it. I figure you're well past that stage but I think its an important point. I believe the instrument chooses some people but they'll never know if they don’t keep one around long enough to find out.
Otherwise the issues in my learning were articulating and giving voice to individual notes- tone tone tone. Took many years, still...
Last Edited by on Nov 12, 2010 3:21 AM
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MagicNick
26 posts
Nov 12, 2010
9:37 AM
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I remember these milestones in a rough kind of order. Have been playing for 2 years now. I practise about an hour per day mainly in my car at lunch time plus a bit more at home. This is my journey so far for what it's worth.
Buy first C harmonica.
lip purse a single note
Find Adam on youtube
Accept 2 draw isn't broken
get sound from 2 draw
get sound from 3 draw
bend 4 draw
Bend 1 draw
bend 2 and 3 draw (badly)
warble
Watch Adam's vid on 'machine language'
get first bluesy sound
learn 2nd pos blues scale
buy loads of blues CD's, make compilations albums all in same key (great for practising)
Slowly get better breathing control as emboucher improves
Learn importance on exhaling when possible
buy an A,Bb,D and G
realise different keys play totally differently (more learning to do!)
first go at vibrato
Bend blow notes
Attempt Whammer Jammer
Give up on Whammer Jammer
Start long switch to tongue blocking
Jam with a guitarist
Mess about with 1st position
learn to play a few songs all the way through
Overblow 6 blow
Mess about with 3rd position
Play 2 songs in pub in front of 17 people
concentrate working on tone
work on vibrato (still hardest thing for me)
play amplified with someones bullet, felt so cool.
I am amazed at myself for still practising and wanting to improve. I've always been someone who loses interest after an intense burst of enthusiasm.
MN
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mr_so&so
375 posts
Nov 12, 2010
10:52 AM
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Great questions, TahoeMike. How I'm learning is always something that I think about. People here sometimes talk about getting stuck, but frankly I can't imagine running out of things to try next if something I'm working on now is giving me grief. Then I come back to the problem area in a few weeks or months. And I always have a few areas that I'm consciously working on. (Right now it's position playing, mastering TB'd blow bends, and integrating the 6ob.) But on to your questions...
Been playing about an hour a day since discovering Adam's YT videos in spring of 2007). So I guess the honeymoon period never ended.
I'd say, keeping rhythm is one of my biggest challenges, and keeping track of where I am in the 12 bar progression. There are certain techniques that I still am not good at, e.g. warbling, but I don't work on that one much.
Milestones:
Getting that first bend (4 draw).
Knocking off the rest all the bends -- I remember that 2d'' was tough for me, and 10b''.
Getting that first 6ob to sound.
Figuring out enough music theory to understand position playing.
Finally "getting it" in first, third and twelfth positions, so that I can play by ear in those.
Switching to full-time tongue-blocking and getting comfortable with the tongue switch for the 1 hole.
I think that learning any melody that you like and playing it to death is a good way to get comfortable in any particular position. Then start improvising on that melody. Any of Adam's lessons from the store are great for that. Then get rid of tabs for a while and learn to play by ear from recordings. Then learn to play what is in your own head and improvise.
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Ant138
644 posts
Nov 12, 2010
11:32 AM
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I've been playing around 4.5yrs
I think the hardest thing for me was bending notes. If felt like a lifetime before i could bend anything, in reality it was probably about 4 months or so but i came close to giving up.
Then i discovered Adam and Jason's videos and that was it i was hooked big time! I play harp almost every day. Someimes its just not posssible because of work but i do my best. I tend to practice really hard if i get a day off work and i'm by myself i'll practice for hours.
I havnt really ever 'gone off' the harp although i'm not afraid to put it down if its one of those days and nothing is happening but harp is an obsession for me. I'm usually always thinking about it when i'm not playing it, That feeling has held steadfast from the begining.
I think my true break through has been switching to Tongue Blocking almost full time. I loved the sound of slaps and pull's but i didn't know it came from Tongue Blocking.
So when i finally figured that out i realised if i want that fat blues sound i was going to have to learn Tongue Blocking. It was like learning to walk again:o(. I hated that whole learning curve but then within a few months it just clicked.
I've realised i'm in it for the long haul so i'm in no rush to learn everything right away.
Remember 'Softly softy, Catchy Monkey'
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http://www.youtube.com/user/fiendant?feature=mhum
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shanester
288 posts
Nov 12, 2010
11:34 AM
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I have played about six years total, 4 when I was in my twenties and two now.
When I was in my twenties I had no structure, and other than showing up for work, I did things as I felt the urge and had no real disciplined approach to anything.
I was inspired to pick up the harp because I lived with and older guy that played country style.
Learning to drawbend took me a while and seemed like a big mystery at first.
I played very simple country type ornamental stuff in a roots rock band then.
Two years ago I pawned my guitars and went to work in Louisiana and dejectedly packed a couple of tarnished harps leftover from the nineties.
While googling harmonica I stumbled across an Adam Gussow youtube video and was fascinated by his style, professorial manner, and wealth of lessons and watched them like nighttime television one after the other as I went to bed.
When I started playing no one I knew had internet, and blues harp was a pretty arcane subject!
It did a lot for my enthusiasm and I started woodshedding on the blues and buying harps...
The hardest thing for me on my path has been good intonation, I think that is where you just have to put in the time.
Also, playing from the diaghram and bending from back in your throat, moving your control of the sound to as deep from your center as you can...
As far as riffs, my personal take is listen to a lot of blues, and practice improvising over a chord progression from the blues scale. There are a lot of riffs in the vernacular that you will know how to play immediately if you get real familiar with where notes are on the harp. Then, they will come out your way instead of someone elses.
Also, learn the names of the different grooves and how they go such as flat tire shuffle, boogie shuffle etc.
Play with people who are proficient with Blues playing often, regardless of instrument, you will learn a ton from that.
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Shane
1shanester
"Keep it coming now, keep it coming now,
Don't stop it no don't stop it no no don't stop it no don't stop it no no..."
- KC and the Sunshine Band
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TahoeMike00
144 posts
Nov 15, 2010
1:30 PM
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Good stuff. Thanks for the insightful replies. There are definitely common threads in the process it seems.
@ MagicNick:
"Attempt Whammer Jammer"
"Give up on Whammer Jammer"
I wonder how many times that is repeated by everyone learning to play :-)
@ Ant138 "I've realized i'm in it for the long haul so i'm in no rush to learn everything right away."
Good strategy. I would have to guess there is a lot of beginner burn-out. Quitting out of frustration etc. I training for the long haul as well.
My HUGE concern is, even though I am technically advancing on items such as draw-bends, even the blue 3rd, warbles, and for most of the time, clear single blow & draw notes, blues scale and couple of simple riffs memorized, my fear is that I will never "get" musicality. I know what I have accomplished, I know what want to accomplish and I know what I can not.
According to the Adam Scale, I am intermediate. It just seems where I am at I will never advance from here.
I have a feeling that on the Adam Scale, the levels from intermediate to advanced intermediate and beyond is not linear, but Logarithmic or exponential. :-)
I am seeing a great instructor, and I am sure for him it's like trying to teach Dr. Spock (from Star Trek) how to play harmonica. He is obviously very patient.
They says the blues is in you, you don't play the blues. Gindick I think even professes that -everyone- has it in them, you just need to let it out. Still working on that part.
I realize that there is never a defining moment where you wake up one day and say "I'm a blues harp musician now" but I am just hoping I find all the pieces of the puzzle to be able to be satisfied with where I want to be. Jeesh, that sounds a little too philosophical.
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The more I learn about harmonica, the more I learn how much more there is to learn.
Last Edited by on Nov 15, 2010 1:39 PM
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jbone
434 posts
Nov 15, 2010
8:13 PM
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playing on and off over 35 years, mostly on. for about half of that time i was such a hard head, and too proud to seek out and ask for help. i rationalized that if i wanked around long enough i'd "get it". which it turns out was partly true. i bumbled my way into a band or 3 by the 90's. one thing i always had was a feel for the music. i just didn't have much in the way of chops or tools beyond a limited facility in 2nd position. toward the end of the 90's i began to really wake up to more possibilities. one thing was finally accepting that i really didn't know enough about the instrument, that's why i was constantly blowing out toe 2, 5, or mostly 4 draw reed on virtually every harp i ever owned. i got more serious and decided that i needed to adopt a more student-like mentality and more or less humble myself and try to actually learn some things.
air column and breath control was probably the first and most important thing i began to work on. from that concept i began to find out what real dynamics actually were. at the same time i was also learning to sing and finding my voice, and another big realization was how very much voice and harp are related. big tone and good control comes from the same place inside a person.
i was always inspired by harp players. still am. but the people changed over the years. magic dick was one of the first to really get my attention, and i'm one who tried and gave up on whammer jammer. dick is a true dedicated harpman along with several other notable skills. but guys like mick jagger, daltry, niel young, bob dylan, are all in there as inspirations as well. later on came wolf, all the guys who played with muddy, jimmy reed, the west coast guys, the swamp guys, and just too many to list.
about 11 years ago i banged my head against a wall until i finally "got" 3rd position, on diatonic and chromatic both. i also revisited 1st position and began to expand my chops in those 2 positions. this really helped me expand in 2nd as well.
lessons and encouragement from better players has been a real help to me. though few and far between, those lessons and encouragement helped me find my own harp voice.
after all this time i still don't know a scale to save my life. i have no doubt i can play one if i focus and work on it some. i am very much a seat of the pants player. raw instinct coupled with a knowledge of positions has brought me a long way.
i am not afraid to get on stage with nearly anyone. i know that i will either do well or learn some things about myself and my deficiencies!
milestones:
opened for Bobby Rush a few years ago.
got a huge compliment from Selwyn Cooper this past spring- he compared me to James Cotton!
chatted with James Harman about 10 years back. what a GUY. writes his own stuff, plays really fine, and just a great showman.
i guess another milestone was in the 90's when i decided- after many people told me so- that i was not just a "player" but that i was becoming a "musician", despite not having any formal training.
at one point, in '99 or '00, i was working steady with 3 bands, subbing here and there with other bands, hitting every jam i could- usually 3 a week, working in a duo, and hosting an open mic night every other week. wasn't getting rich but i was really happy.
currently i am in a duo with my wife- may sound corny but it's the best thing i've ever done! we have a blast playing out, learning new stuff, writing, all that, and we're about to publish our second cd. in addition i get to play with electric bands here and there and have found the amp and mic love of my life for both duo (cm bullet with a silvertone 1482), and electric full band (cm bullet and replica '59 bassman built by a pro). and i pretty much have the chops to do both justice!
i have put harps down here and there, once for about a year. which like to killed me btw. but a short break allows the mind to sort out and re-order things and brings about a-HA moments. learning can take place when you are least expecting it if you just go with the flow.
the really best defining moments i have had lately involve an audience at the farmers market locally. it attracts all sorts of people, rich tourists, street bums, housewives, folks with toddlers, octogenarians, just about anyone you can think of. and just about every age group, economic bracket, etc, responds to sincere and decently played harp.
someone said they are in for the long haul. that's me to a tee. until i can't do it any more.
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