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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Question for Brendan Power
Question for Brendan Power
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Jagrowler
4 posts
Nov 06, 2010
6:38 AM
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... or anyone else wishing to throw their opinion my way.
Brendan, I know you have an association with Suzuki and am interested in the tuning of their Bluesmaster. Is it 'equal' or 'intonation'.
I am just getting into harp (mis-spent youth on guitar/ banjo/ mandolin!) and am unconvinced by the tuning on Hohner SP20 or Blues Harp that I've tried (not bad you understand), and everyone talks about sharpening draw notes on Marine Bands. I was thinking about trying a Golden Melody, but am getting confused!
On an old thread, someone commented that nobody seems concerned if a piano has equal tuning, but it seems a big issue on Harp! To add to the confusion, most of the better players hit many single notes and a few chords, not the other way around.
Any light you can throw into my darkened corner would be helpful - thanks in advance
ps I don't have the wallet or inclination to buy one of everything available to compare, and want to settle on suitable instrument
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tookatooka
1836 posts
Nov 06, 2010
6:52 AM
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BluesMaster, ProMaster, HarpMaster = ET (Equal Tuning).
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barbequebob
1418 posts
Nov 06, 2010
8:08 AM
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ET tuning works on a piano because of a couple of things:
a.) There are many more harmonic overtones on a piano than any other instrument and the closest to it is harmonica, but where many of the overtones, especially the upper harmonic overtones, on harmonicas are odd-numbered, which tend to sound very harsh to the human ear, especially when played with bad playing technique, on pianos, most of them are even numbered, which are far more pleasing to the human ear;
b.) The other thing is, on acoustic pianos, is the exact spot where the hammer strikes the string, and if the spot that that hammer strikes is off by even a tiny bit, then ET tuning doesn't work because the hammer also works as a damper so that the overtones at that spot works like the way 5 & 9 draw works when playing an ET tuned chord on a harmonica would sound positively god awful and harsh.
Also, pianos are stretch tuned, meaning that every octave higher or lower than middle C, each succeeding octave is tuned 2 cents sharper. In other words, if the next octave is 1 higher or lower, that octave is tuned 2 cents sharper, and then the following octave after that is another 2 cents sharper.
If you need to hear the difference on a key of C diatonic the difference between ET and 7LJI, 19LJI and 5LJI in both chords and single notes, go to http://www.patmissin.com/tunings/audio.html and you will clearly hear the difference.
Golden Melodies are ET tuned.
If you go to the subject in this forum, diatonic Harmonica Tunings, I have a link where I list the tunings for just about every diatonic harmonica being made and any harp you do not see there listed is in ET tuning.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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Jagrowler
5 posts
Nov 06, 2010
3:11 PM
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Thanks for both replies - the explanation about piano anomalies sounding 'less harsh' is very interesting, as was the Pat Missin web site. Now I think about it, chords on an acoustic guitar sound sweeter when the strings are tuned to each other rather than each string to electronic tuner, although in reality it is somewhat marginal!
The next logical question is why are there so many ET harps for sale - why aren't they all JI? (Rhetorical question!)
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tookatooka
1838 posts
Nov 06, 2010
4:27 PM
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It may be because a lot of people may prefer to play melodies rather than chords like we do in the blues. Also it may also be because a lot of people don't realise when they are starting out. I didn't. I started out and bought all Suzuki harps and just couldn't understand why my blues didn't sound quite right. I then got a Special 20 and the difference was remarkable and everything from then on just neatly fell into place.
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boris_plotnikov
296 posts
Nov 07, 2010
12:47 AM
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Retuning harmonica from JI to ET and vice versa takes about 20 minutes and requires razor blade (or shim), fine file and few skills (practice with your old harmonicas). It's much easier skill than hitting blue 3rd with correct pitch ((: All my harps (no matter Seydel, Suzuki or Hohner) are 442 compomised tuned. All holes are 0 cents, except 2, 5, 8 blow and 3, 7 draw which I tune to 441 base frequency or -10 cents). So chords are OK (not perfect, but OK, instead of ET where chords are rough), melody is perfect (instead of JI which sounds bad for my taste). I hate flatted 5 and 9 draw, as it ruins 12 position playing.
BTW I didn't see any harmonica with perfect tuning, I retune all of them. Seydels are always tuned OK by octaves, but too high for me (444Hz). At least one octave at new Hohner sounds rough usually. Hohner are also tuned very inconsistent, once I get a Golden Melody with the blow plate toned 442 Hz, while Draw plate was 444 Hz, once I get compromised Golden Melody (it was OK for me, but it was against their ads).
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Excuse my bad English. Click on my photo or my username for my music.
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Brendan Power
108 posts
Nov 07, 2010
1:58 AM
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I agree with Boris: Learn to tune your harps to your own liking. It's easy, even easier than he says. 20 minutes? More like 3-5 minutes to make the small adjustments required in most cases. So Jagrowler, get under those coverplates, learn the simple skills required, and then you can play the harp you like regardless of how it comes tuned out of the box.
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boris_plotnikov
297 posts
Nov 07, 2010
10:29 AM
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Brendan
20 minutes for whole harmonica, not single reed ((:
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Excuse my bad English. Click on my photo or my username for my music.
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chromaticblues
269 posts
Nov 07, 2010
10:35 AM
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Yeah boris it takes me about a half hour to tune a whole harp.
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