Okay guys, this is my first post so go easy on me. I'm trying to learn to play overblows, have got to the "choking the note" stage, and all of a sudden things have gone a bit fuzzy. I am starting to believe that there must be a stage between the horriblechokingharpfallingtobits stage and the bloodywonderfulsilkynote stage. Is this the case? Is it a gradual process, or does that note just pop up one day all by itself? I have studied the vids posted by Adam and Jason Ricci and am dedicating a good chunk of my practice time to this technique, so far without success. Are there any further tips any of you can offer?
The best advise I got was from MAL, and he told me to play very softly and not force it at all. You need consistent air flow, but not force or pressure. For me the squealing immediately changed to the reed popping into a tone. Making it sound "bloodywonderfulsilkynote" is a mystery only solved by practicing you ass off. I'm not there yet.
Depends on harp too. Suzuki-OKish. Sp20-great. Lee Oskar-poor.
It's all in the back of the tongue. Once you can draw bend well, do the same again but exhale. A little experimentation with tongue position and mouth should crack it.
Concentrate on 6 overblow first, that seems to be the easiest for me on a C harp. ----------
I can't get anywhere with the damn things. Can occasionally overblow the 6 blow, but only on low harps - nothing above A. Never overblown the 1, 4 or 5. I heard that overblowing on Golden Melodies was easier but I can't even get the 6 out of that (it's a C harp). Tried adjusting gaps on most of my harps but that doesn't seem to make any difference. (This isn't information or advice that anyone should respond to; it's just me venting.)
Overblows should not be kicking, kissing, or anything else towards your ass. Keep your harmonica away from your ass otherwise you're doing it wrong :P .
^Obviously in jest.
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~Ryan
"I play the harmonica. The only way I can play is if I get my car going really fast, and stick it out the window." - Stephen Wright
Pennsylvania - H.A.R.P. (Harmonica Association 'Round Philly)
It's definitely a process, even when you start to get the clean single note, it still sounds like crap. Getting clean nice sounding overblows is almost as big a challenge as getting them at all. I'm getting there. I'm still a little out of tune a lot of times, but I'm working on it.
The big "ahah" moment came for me while watching one of Buddha's videos. He said if you can blow-bend the 8 then you can overblow the 6. It's not the exact same motion, but it's damn close. The whole "draw bend and then reverse the airflow" thing never worked for me. I still can't do it like that, and I'm pretty comfortable with overblowing these days.
There definitely is a period between the "squak" and the "beautiful" note. For the first couple months of playing overblows, it's tough to have the control to both keep the note going, and have good tone. So the note sounds thin and nasally. Control and moderate to light breath force is the key here.
Definitely start with the 6 though, it's by far the easiest of them. Just blow gently into it, then try to bend it down. It will only get a little flatter, and then it will choke. Keep the steady air flow and keep bending a little more and you should get that squak. If you can keep controlled the squak will go away and you'll have a note. More than likely it will be out of tune, but you can bend it into tune with your tongue.
Good luck and keep at it.
Last Edited by on Oct 24, 2010 7:34 PM
I came upon this by accident. Play a sustained 7 blow bend (down half a step). Without changing anything, embouchure or airflow, slide down one hole to the sixth hole. If you're harp is well suited and setup for a 6 hole overblow, there's a good chance that you'll get it immediately.
This works effortlessly for me using a NON-tongue blocked embouchure on a Bb Golden Melody that I embossed and gapped to play as sensitively as possible. I can move the harp back and forth slowly or quickly and warble back and forth between the 7 blow bend and 6 overblow while maintaining a consistent embouchure and airflow.
Too, this may be a good way to assess how well setup a harp is as well as how good certain harp models are for easy overblowing.
Last Edited by on Oct 24, 2010 9:19 PM
Great advice so far...it is really all above already.
I went from barely playing the 6 overblow to being able to start bending all overblows and bending while overdrawing 7 and playing them in songs in a matter of 2 weeks.
This is how I did it. ( I know this will sound like an ad but it is not...just sharing how it worked for me)
Signed up for Howard's site and submitted a straight ahead blues tune..sitting on top of the world, no overblows. His feedback was amazing and he added that I had the basics down and was ready for overblows. watched his lessons on overblows.
So I grabbed my sp20 D harp - gapped it top to bottom real tight but so I can just still quickly mouth breath in and out lightly and still get the reed to play normally. I put wax on the 7 and 9 only for the overdraws (only got squeal otherwise)
Howard says it differently and you may get something that makes sense to you if you hear him explain it but Gussow and Ricci have it all laid out in their own way on line and, now that I can play them, what they all say is just different ways of describing the same thing.
I tried drawing in and bending with the super lightest breath I could use then blow out with the same soft breath and tried to keep everything in my throat, mouth tongue exactly the same (as gussow and ricci say). If it didn't work I started again and never added more power to my breath. just changed my mouth etc...
Then instead of practicing for hours I did 10 minutes at a time, walking to the subway, lunch break, etc. about 4 or 5 times a day and after 2 weeks I had it. I find I absorb much better this way. Playing several times for shorter periods every day than one long stretch every other day.
I found it is totally down to positioning and not breath strength, you can play these wisper soft or real hard. I was quite an exciting ride once they started to come together. best of luck
hope that helps in some small way, not sure if I added anything new.
oh meant to say....think of them as efforless cause you need to be really relaxed in everyway except for the few isolated muscles you are using especially to get a half decent tone (just like bends). don't force it, it is not anything all that hard to do. Chris M says he gets folks to pop them in a matter of minutes in a lesson and Howard's lessons went a long way to get me started. it is just finding the right combo of stuff through discovery and it happens. not hard to do just foreign at first.
Please update us and let us know how it is coming along.
The mental barrier that they are difficult to play is the greatest barrier you will have learning overblows. Much harder is playing in tune, with even tone and fully relaxed.
Well, I only meant to jab a little in fun--but now I find I'm getting a little pissed.
The thing that sometimes chaps me a bit is that some the guys who can do it come across as *sympathetic* to us who can't--as if you were more highly evolved or something.
I did a lesson from Chris on OB. All I got was my signature oversqueak--He taught me many things in very short time--how to get an OB was not one of them.
As the founding father of FOCKA, it is still my duty to say it: FOCKA! ----------
Here is how i learned to overblow ... I think it was from Adam in the 90's ... He said Drawbend the 6 ... Then keep that embousure and blow it will pop right up .....I can now pop it up without doing that but still dont know what to do with it ......Try that ... ---------- Have Harp Will Travel
If you can blowbend, you should be able to OB/OD on a harp set up to do it. To me, that is the biggest factor to starting to OB - having a harp set up to do it well.
Once you can start to make them sound, it isn't really hard to start bending them to pitch. Of course, it takes practice, but the actual technique isn't hard. It is the listening and muscle memory part that is a pain.
Using a harp not setup to OB will really make it difficult to do well, though. Granted, you can hit them flat or as passing notes, but to use them like "regular" notes, you have to have the right harp. ---------- Mike VHT Special 6 Amp for Harp Blog
I play overbends from the throat. You can go from 6 blow, to 6 draw bend, to 6 draw, to 6 overblow, to 6 overblow bent up 1/2 step, by only changing throat position. I play on GMs I gapped myself. These notes can be played clean, on pitch, and with a sweet vibrato.
Don't be discouraged. It takes awhile for overblows and even longer for overdraws. With much practice I can finally overblow the one hole on a G harp and go all the way to a high F# and overdraw hole 10. Granted, these exterme notes are not that useful but great practice for developing technique and chops. I believe these chop muscles must be developed as well. JohnnieHarp...7 blow bend is like 5 draw bend..you can move it a little but cannot bend to the next 1/2 step.
With all due respect to Old Wailer, I’m sure you are a fine technician in the art of the squeal, but I believe I am probably the best right now. I have refined my technique over time with considerable practice and can now even do a full step bend on the 6 oversqueal. I think it takes something quite special to avoid playing the straight blow or overblow and hit that squeal full on.
Actually I can play overblows now (and there are no words in the English language to express this in such an exceptionally humble way) that will divert the non overblower from thinking ‘smug git’.
However the frustration of not being able to do them is still fresh in my mind. I had tried all the above methods btw but still couldn’t do them (when you can do them they all work just fine). If someone tells you ‘oh I managed do it straight away’ Pay them no heed, they are the type of people who win the lottery, or if they fall out of a window they go up.
For a long time it was a case of Squeal. Squeal. Squeal. Squeal. Squeal. Squeal. Squeal. Squeal. Squeal. Squeal. Squeal. Pause to look exasperated and swear for a bit then Squeal. Squeal. Squeal. Squeal. Squeal. Squeal. Squeal. Squeal. Squeal. Squeal. Squeal. x days? weeks?, months?
And there it was an overblow suddenly popped out like an unexpected fart in a lift (I almost said Pardon me) You will have a sudden urge to phone a friend or tell strangers in the street of your momentous achievement RESIST THIS, keep the harp firmly glued to your lips and try and replicate what just happened thinking all the while what tiny adjustment of embouchure, wind speed, tongue position, humidity, alignment of the planets just caused this to work when on hundreds of other attempts it didn’t.
Taking a more sober view after the initial exuberance of my achievement I can say that Howard (Levy or the duck for that matter) should in no way feel threatened..
Joking aside I think the tip above that helped me most was doing the overbend on 7, then sliding down and doing a very similar technique on 6. Also, if you don’t mind taking the cover plates off your harmonica put your finger on the 6 blow reed (that’s the top reed plate) and try it. With luck you will get the overblow. Having heard what it sounds like will help you help you when you try it normally. The essence is the blow reed must stop vibrating (choke) and then the draw reed below will vibrate and cause the overblow. In order to get the choke, the gap between the blow reed and the underside of the reed plate has to be reasonably tight. I will try and get round to taking some photos to demonstrate this.
In the words of Kevin Costner in Field of Dreams: ‘If you blow them, they will come’
"I did a lesson from Chris on OB. All I got was my signature oversqueak--He taught me many things in very short time--how to get an OB was not one of them."
You popped four of them out, I have it on video. If you stick with what I told you, you'd be doing it.
OBs and everything else are all about airflow control. ---------- "I am a great believer in understanding, not copying."
>JohnnieHarp...7 blow bend is like 5 draw bend..you can move it a little but cannot bend to the next 1/2 step.
Unless the 7 draw reed has gone somewhat flat which mine apparently has ... LOL ... blow bend gets pretty close to a semitone ... tuning job tonight! ... or maybe I should just drop the 7 draw the rest of the way with blu tak and play with it first?
One good way to work on overblows is to keep a harp handy that has tape over the blow reed plate ... pick up the harp regularly and just work on getting the overblows to sound ...
Strongly agree that reed and slot design and a harp set up that is well matched to the individual makes the process a lot easier ...
Also have found that alternate tunings and a circular setup (blow reed always lower in pitch than draw reed from holes 1 thru 10) makes the diatonic more flexible and easier to be creative on ... for me anyhow ... with this setup, I do use overblows on holes 5, 6, 7 and 8 ... but more a luxury than a necessity ...
If you can blow bend the 7 hole all the way down to the same pitch as 7 draw... then you have bent it 1/2 step. I can get it close, but since the blow and draw reeds are only 1/2 step difference seems to me like you could not go all the way since the reeds act together on a bend. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
@Master Buddha--Wow! I wasn't aware of the OB's I popped at the time--or maybe I just forgot them.
Since I am caught on video OBing--I guess I'll have to step down from my position of DAIC (Dumb Ass In Charge) of FOCKA--so the position is now officially open for anybody who cares.
A while back I decided that my mastery of the blow bend (which you taught me) was not good--so I've been working on that for some time now. I think I'm about ready to get down to business again on OB now--I've regressed into guitar for a while--messing with the bottleneck again, so I have had less time for harp in the last year or so. . . ----------
After not being a big hurry to get to OBs, I'm now working the 6ob into my playing. That is all I need for now (and all I can do with any consistency). BTW I can now OB tongue-blocked, thanks to inspiration from MAL. If I can offer any advice, I'd say to think about directing the air stream down (Buddha uses a straw to teach this) and learn to maintain back pressure (Buddha also mentions this). Others have already talked about playing with as little breath force as possible.
I must agree with others that say gapping is very important. I heard Buddha talk about getting harps like GMs MBs and SP20s that would not overbend out of the box. This would drive someone nutty. If it won't OB for Buddha it damn sure won't OB for someone trying to learn. Watch and learn the gapping videos on youtube before you get discouraged.
Someone that has not had much luck...try this...... play a smooth blow 6, with a big, open mouth and throat.....feel the big, soft flow filling the hole.....gently...DON'T change your open mouth position for the next two notes.....do it all in the throat.... ...blow smooth 6, then draw 6 (no bend) for about a second... then blow 6 BUT ...this time redirect your airflow across the roof of your mouth, hitting the point where the gums meet the backside of your two front top teeth. Do it all with the throat. This has worked for a couple of people I helped. I am not a teacher and don't claim to be...but if this works ..let me know.
Last Edited by on Oct 25, 2010 3:35 PM
@diletto--I'm also waiting for an answer in full to your question--I still get confused on this issue--the overblow pushes a note up--the blow-bend pushes the note down. The overdraw I don't know about--I used to know, but I forget stuff at my age, and, since I don't do them, I don't have to remember.
While I was waiting for my wife at Wal-Mart yesterday--just practicing on a D MB harp, learning "Crossroads" from Adam's lesson (great lesson), I started thinking about this thread. I was also remembering the lesson from Buddha on blowbends--and thinking about that tip to BB the 7 then just shift to the 6 without doing much of anything. WOW! This REALLY COOL NOTE popped out of nowhere! It probably lasted for two or three heartbeats! I think I didn't really know how cool that note was--and it can bend up!
Anyway, thanks to everybody who contributed to this thread--I think this beast is actually beginning to submit to me--and that opens up new territory for me.
I gotta go gap some harps and practice. . . ----------
The draw bend is what you probably have already been doing on holes 1 to 6 and also the blow bend on holes 7 to 10. The overblow technique is different because it produces other notes (different from normal blow notes)by blowing holes 1 to 6 in the ways described above. The overdraw technique produces other notes by using a special technique (not yet described above) on the draw holes 7 to 10.
Hope this makes sense.
p.s. Draw bend=ie blues style bend, lowers the pitch of the normal draw note.Holes 1to6
Blow bend = Lowers the pitch of the normal blow note. Holes 7to10
Overblow = Raises the pitch of the normal blow note. Holes 1to6
If you're struggling with overblows, why not take a lateral approach and get a PowerBender instead? In all the main positions the overblows are replaced with easy draw bends. Here's the proof:
Overblows are still available on every hole 1-10, but they're not critical to playing cool jazzy licks in the main positions, as they are on a Richter harp. Draw bends are much easier, sound better, and you don't need an expensive custom harp to simply play the stuff you hear in your head.
Last Edited by on Oct 27, 2010 2:34 AM
after having ruined some harps by fuzzing around with the reeds, it´s tempting to play those above ...but...somehow it seems like a cheap trick to me...like walking on the water, when only you know where the stones are(...sorry for my english, hope you get my point)...I prefer to learn it the old way...and have one question: when I adjust the blowreeds for OB, do I have to do something with the drawreeds also? and if so, what? greetz from hamburg,germany ---------- Music is moonlight in the gloomy night of life. (Jean Paul)
It's not necessary that you do anything to the draw reeds, but it's a good idea. For the sake of consistency and ease of play, it's ideal that all your reeds be gapped about the same. I'm not an expert, but that's how I understand it.
today, after many days of "desperate" trying, I accidently hit the 6 OB, pure and clean...but alas...I forgot how I did it! *rofl* ---------- Music is moonlight in the gloomy night of life. (Jean Paul)
Last Edited by on Oct 25, 2010 10:56 AM
