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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Promaster valved, breathing
Promaster valved, breathing
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MEK
8 posts
Oct 07, 2010
7:06 PM
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When searching for reviews on the web before buying I read about the valves/notes sticking. I bought a MR350V in C and while practicing today I had many sticking notes and wished I had bought the unvalved model. I had particular trouble with the 2 blow. This harp requires quite a bit less air than my others and while exhaling out my nose while blowing I suddenly had perfect tone as I accidentally did diaphragmatic breathing. I have read not to but like a lot of beginners I play with my mouth rather than use proper breathing. The tone difference was very noticeable but the key thing was no more sticking at all. Breath control really matters with a valved unit? Or does it matter for all harps and I'm just noticing it with such an air tight model?
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ZackPomerleau
1159 posts
Oct 07, 2010
7:24 PM
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Breath control matters on ALL harmonicas. I'm waiting for BBQ Bob to come in, he can say it better than moi.
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MrVerylongusername
1283 posts
Oct 08, 2010
1:32 AM
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just a quick point on those sticking valves
Breath contains a large volume of water vapour. Just as your bathroom mirror steams up when the warm steam hits the cold glass, the moisture in your breath condenses when it passes through the cold metal harp.
If you warm the harmonica up, so it is closer to you body temperature, there will be less condensation and valves will stick less. This is what many chromatic players do - no reason why half-valved diatonic players shouldn't do the same.
Last Edited by on Oct 08, 2010 1:34 AM
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The Gloth
479 posts
Oct 08, 2010
4:38 AM
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That's a very good advise, I'll think about it next time, thanks !
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MEK
9 posts
Oct 08, 2010
8:13 AM
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Thank you MrVery, I'm finding it doesn't stick at all if I breathe properly, warm or cold. More it's a product of my poor technique. I am just curious if you guys play valved ones with less pressure?
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barbequebob
1314 posts
Oct 08, 2010
10:15 AM
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MEK, bresth control is a VERY important technique to learn for ALL harmonicas, regardless of what type it is and it's a HIGHLY overlooked by the average player.
Valved harps are a good test to see if you're guilty of using far too much breath force in your playing. If the valves stick, you get winded quickly, and/or when you bend a note on a valved harp, the note blanks out on you frequently, consider youirself guilty.
From my experience when I was teach, 98% of all newbie players and at least 50-75% of intermediate players are guilty of this. With all players who do this, they also have a tendency to play with an extremely wet mouth, and on top of that, they are also playing very physically uptight and so they wind up heavily constricting their air passages and waste at least 75-80% of the air going in to the instrument, and when they're bending notes, they often play even harder trying to force things to happen, which is also BAD playing technique, and when doing this, it SEVERLY stresses the reed to the point that not only does it go out of tune, it will cause microscopic cracks (AKA stress fractures) on the reeds, and once this happens, the reed cannot be retuned, it's on its way to death, and in a worse case scerio, it will break apart and you may wind up swallowing it.
What's the right amount of force?? My advice is play just hard enough that you don't wake up a baby sleeping in the next room. Playing with too much force is the equivalent of yelling 24/7/65 at the top of your lungs, which will eventually do severe damage to your vocal chords.
Valved harmonicas like the partially valved diatonics and also chromatic harps are EXTREMELY sensitive to breath force, and also higher quality harps, especially custom harmonicas and using too much force is not a smart idea.
The average player tends to be teaching themselves and often isn't around a good, knowledgable teacher they can go to who won't think twice about getting in their face about that.
It's also a reason why I recommend that ALL harp players go to a reputable vocal coach and get some breathing and relaxation lessons because these are VERY important to get both proper support, the best overall tone and control for the voice so you don't wind up doing damage.
MVLUN has it right on the valved harps without a doubt.
A harp player friend of mine from the Boston area had told me that he got lessons from my friend Annie Raines and when she asked him to play a bit just to see where he was at musically in order to get the right lesson plan for him, he said within 30 seconds, she told him "Kock it off!!! You're playing way too hard!!!" He, like most players, had absolutely no idea he was doing that.
If you're trying to play stuff that has very rapid and frequent breath shifts like Charlie McCoy's uptempo version of the Orange Blossom Special, you will sound like a wheezing cat that got a shovel stuck uits rear end plus you will quickly be very winded.
98% of players using too much force will sound like crap and their sound won't project well and actually will be a lot lower in volume than they think.
Just because music writers use phrases like "he played so hard," may sound like it's true and descriptive, but tho it's nice writing, but it is FAR from the truth and most of them aren't musicians and those who are, few of them are harmonica players and/or know a goddamned thing about the instrument at all.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Last Edited by on Oct 08, 2010 12:57 PM
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MEK
10 posts
Oct 08, 2010
11:58 AM
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Thanks for clarifying that bbqB, I guess I'll put it away for a while so I don't wreck it until I learn to tone down the breathing.
On a side note it's the best feeling/sounding Harmonica I've tried from my beginners perspective. Playing it back to back with a Manji, Special 20, Easy Rider and Golden Melody. Going to ask Santa for an unvalved set.
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MrVerylongusername
1285 posts
Oct 08, 2010
12:04 PM
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If you really don't like the valves, just take them off and you have a regular promaster
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barbequebob
1316 posts
Oct 08, 2010
12:26 PM
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It takes some time get used to really refining your technique to get the hang of using any harmonicas with valves on them and I don't recommend them for a beginning player.
Learning breath control is not going to be something that you can learn in 5 minutes or 5 easy lessons because it takes some serious woodshedding.
Without breath control, you do not jave good tone or tone control, dynamics, wide variety of tonal colors, and that's just for starters.
Again, breath control is VERY IMPORTANT to learn for ALL harmonicas of ALL types.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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MEK
11 posts
Oct 08, 2010
4:07 PM
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Santa ordered the boxed set of Promasters this afternoon and will swap out the unvalved C from the set with the valved C already purchased. Once I get better I'll try again. Kids will be none the wiser, damn I have a great(and understanding)wife. Who wants to be surprised when you can pick what you want?
Thanks for the advice bbqB.
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