mojojojo
56 posts
Sep 12, 2010
6:38 AM
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Hi there fellow harpers...
The note chart has the overblows going up 3 half tones each, but my OB on 6OB sounds straight up to the C note. I compared it while playing notes on the keyboard. This happens on all my C harps and it sounds very clear and strong.
Any idea how I'm supposed to get this down to Bb so I can play the 2nd octave blues scale? Is it technique or tuning?
It happens on other OBs as well...I can post a vid if needed.
Appreciate any critique.
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I suck at harmonica!
Jakarta River Blues Band
JRB's facebook news and vidz
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Andrew
1174 posts
Sep 12, 2010
8:48 AM
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I'm guessing you are fairly new to this, and it sounds like you are probably trying too hard. This gives 2 possibilities: 1, you might be blowing the 7 hole (I've done this myself, so you shouldn't take it as an insult);
2, You are too tense and bending the OB up a tone. Get the OB then relax and see if it comes down.
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Andrew,
gentleman of leisure,
noodler extraordinaire.
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LeeEdwards
84 posts
Sep 12, 2010
9:04 AM
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You say that it happens on your other OBs so it would have to be a huge coincidence for all your holes to be out of tune with exact relativity. This definitely sounds like a technique issue.
Just like a regular bend the pitch can be changed with changes in embouchure. Usually on a deep draw or blow bend, and this a a very, very simplified way of looking at it, your mouth makes an 'aw' or 'ore' shape. When holding a bend if the mouth makes a slow and gradual transition from 'aw' to 'eee' the pitch of the bend will rise.
OB bends are no different. Once you pop and sustain the OB, very minute adjustments between 'aw' and 'eee' more towards the back of the throat should allow the pitch to be manipulated.
If you are always hitting your OBs too high you may possibly be making too much of an 'eee' shape with your embouchure.
Use the keyboard to get your Bb. Gradually bring the 6OB down to pitch and sustain for as long as you can. When you need to inhale do so through your nose without changing anything about the shape of your embouchure and then go in for the OB again. Hopefully it will still sound as Bb. Rinse and repeat until muscle memory takes hold.
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"You will never get every possible thing out of an instrument, but the instrument will get every possible thing out of you" - Ray Charles.
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jonlaing
87 posts
Sep 12, 2010
10:13 AM
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I have/had the same issue with my 5OB. I noticed that when I pop into an overblow, for some reason I bring my tongue up for a little bit. When I started trying to get the overblow while keeping my tongue down, I found that I was hitting the pitch more accurately. Not sure if you're doing the same thing, but definitely sounds like you should try opening up your embouchure a bit.
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sammyharp
16 posts
Sep 12, 2010
11:25 AM
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jonlaing is on to something. I find pitch control with OBs to be 90 percent tongue. The back of the tongue has to be positioned correctly for the OB to happen, and the front of the tongue largely conrols the pitch. The farther forward and up you set your tongue, the higher the pitch. Try playing around with tongue position while overblowing to see what happens. Experimentation can really pay off.
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LeeEdwards
85 posts
Sep 12, 2010
1:27 PM
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@sammyharp - "The farther forward and up you set your tongue, the higher the pitch"
Maybe, but the result is probably a thinner and bright tone. There's nothing wrong with that if that is what the goal is, but if a warmer, more rounded sound is required controlling the pitch further back towards the base of the tongue, just like with regular bends is recommended. After all, how do you control the pitch of a tongue blocked OB if the tip of the tongue is on the comb?
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"You will never get every possible thing out of an instrument, but the instrument will get every possible thing out of you" - Ray Charles.
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sammyharp
17 posts
Sep 12, 2010
1:59 PM
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I've never heard of anyone tongue blocking an overblow, as far as I know, it doesn't work. What I'm talking about is more of a smooth lifting action of the tongue, from front to back. This controls the air pressure, and changes the resonance of the mouth. the spot which controls the pitch is almost the spot where you would make the s sound. Not the tip of the tongue, but a little further back. The spot where the cavity in the roof of the mouth starts. When I OB, the tip of my tongue is actually tipped down and flattened out. if you can say "yoioioioi" only using your tongue, (without moving your lips) that's the kind of shifting you need to control overblow pitch.
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LeeEdwards
86 posts
Sep 12, 2010
3:49 PM
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@sammyharp - "I've never heard of anyone tongue blocking an overblow, as far as I know, it doesn't work"
Dennis Gruenling uses tongue blocked OBs and I read in an interview somewhere where Joe Filisko states that he can do it also. I'm not sure who else, but according to a thread on Harp-L awhile back there are quite a few. I've popped only a couple within hours and hours of attempts so I'm rubbish at it, but it can definitely be done.
"the spot which controls the pitch is almost the spot where you would make the s sound. Not the tip of the tongue, but a little further back"
That is just one of the many micro spots where you can control the pitch. The further foward the brighter the sound, the further back the warmer the sound.
No explanation is necessary about the "yoiyoiyoi" thing as I mentioned the exact same thing in my original post. Say "yoiyoiyoiyoiyoiyoi" repeatedly. Now use the syllables and shapes I used in my original post, 'aw' as in the word 'awe' "awe-ee-awe-ee-awe-ee". The spelling is different, but they're phoenetically the same ;)
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"You will never get every possible thing out of an instrument, but the instrument will get every possible thing out of you" - Ray Charles.
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Buddha
2441 posts
Sep 12, 2010
4:32 PM
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I can TB OBs too. It's not difficult. People just seem to think it is...
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"All is bliss"
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LeeEdwards
89 posts
Sep 12, 2010
5:06 PM
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@Buddha - You're right. Everything is difficult until you can do it, and you'll never do it if you keep thinking it's too difficult. I'll get there myself eventually fella. I'm nothing if not tenaceous, but TB OB's are not on my top priorities list at present.
Not to detract from mojojojo's original post, but I'm thinking of heading down the custom harp highway and since you have become a Suzuki endorser and my weapon of choice is the Suzuki MR350 I was wondering if you will be offering Buddha Promasters in the future?
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"You will never get every possible thing out of an instrument, but the instrument will get every possible thing out of you" - Ray Charles.
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Buddha
2442 posts
Sep 12, 2010
5:38 PM
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I'm also a suzuki dealer but I'm commited to only offering custom harps. So if you want a promaster, I can do it for you, no problem.
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"All is bliss"
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LeeEdwards
90 posts
Sep 12, 2010
5:51 PM
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Sweet!
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"You will never get every possible thing out of an instrument, but the instrument will get every possible thing out of you" - Ray Charles.
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sammyharp
18 posts
Sep 13, 2010
2:28 AM
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OK, good to know tongue blocked OBs can be done. I think I'll have to experiment with that.
@ LeeEdwards - Yes, you did mention that in your original post. Here I was mentioning it and specifying that it is done with the tongue. I think that is very important, as the rest of the mouth pretty much doesn't move. When most people make the change between "eee" and "aw" the whole mouth , including the lips, moves. So, the same thing you said, just a litle more specific. We're both just dancing around the same point from different angles.
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mojojojo
57 posts
Sep 13, 2010
3:01 AM
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I can pop the OBs with relative ease, and it's not the adjacent hole (although I've certainly done that).
Just imagining it here in the cafe, my mouth shape is definitely really "eee"-shaped on the OB. I will try rounding it out to "aw" and see if it brings down the pitch.
Also, I will try blowing from the stomach to support the change. The "ee" shape might have been from blowing air just from the mouth while focusing on sounding the OBs for the first time. This is also why I probably feel like my regular bends are weak on occasion.
Thanks all for the great feedback in just one day! Hard to find harp players to talk with in Indonesia.
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I suck at harmonica!
Jakarta River Blues Band
JRB's facebook news and vidz
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LeeEdwards
91 posts
Sep 13, 2010
4:19 AM
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@sammyharp - Good point.
@mojojojo - Let us all know how you get on.
@Buddha - I'll email you soon with a few questions.
Take care all.
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"You will never get every possible thing out of an instrument, but the instrument will get every possible thing out of you" - Ray Charles.
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