snakes
564 posts
Sep 07, 2010
9:57 AM
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I'll attest to the fact that Harrison Harmonicas is very responsive to your emails. I too have been waiting since June of 2009 for a Bb. I emailed Harrison and got a response the same day from Dave P. We spoke over several emails and he confirmed that I'm on the list and have not been forgotten. I have to give them credit for the effort required to bring online a new manufacturing process. I used to work in manufacturing and that is no small task to make something new with unique manufacturing techniques. Am I frustrated? A little. At least I only have my deposit at risk (and I am not worried one bit about losing it).
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harpdude61
330 posts
Sep 07, 2010
11:12 AM
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SNakes.....If you pay in full, do you get your harps sooner than you would if you just pay a deposit? I thought the Bb harps were made and shipped first.
I don't think waiting and frustration are the big issues. Customers like honesty and quickly corrected mistakes.
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ridge
91 posts
Sep 07, 2010
11:40 AM
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I can understand that any of you are frustrated that you've put your money out and not received any product yet. I know I would be if I had.
Thing is, I didn't jump to be the first person to purchase one of these innovative harmonicas. Do I want one? Yes, of course I do. Will I buy one? I believe I will when it looks like things are running smoothly. By that time, I technically will have waited probably 3 or 4 years, only my money wasn't already in their possession.
It seems to me, Harrison is perfectionist and wants to put nothing but the best production line harmonica out to his customers that he can. I can't fault him for doing so. It's his vision and a respectable one at that.
Is it an ideal business model? Not in America, because we've been conditioned to expect instant gratification from everything and everyone.
Patiently yours,
Dan Ridgeway
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snakes
565 posts
Sep 07, 2010
12:00 PM
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Dunno about whether you pay full and jump to front of the line. I didn't get that impression.
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rbeetsme
301 posts
Sep 07, 2010
1:41 PM
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I received a B-Rad C harp today, they do exist! I only had 5 minutes before I had to split but the initial response is all positive. Harps are very well built, terrific fit and finish. I love the coverplates, lightweight but solid feel, fit my hand better than any harp I own. (even has my name on it!) It plays very responsive but not alien, actually similar to a DF, but not the gritty tone. All holes play well, bend easily, I think I hit an overblow or 2 as well. If anyone has a Hohner XB40, do not fear, this one is easy to bend without going off key unannounced, plays like you would expect, but a little easier. All in all, looks like a winner. I'll report more when I have more time to break it in.
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blogward
152 posts
Sep 08, 2010
5:53 AM
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Got a new date. 'End of September'. Didn't quote what year though.
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ness
285 posts
Sep 08, 2010
6:20 AM
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I'd love to be a bug on the wall over at Harrison.
One thing nobody here knows is what their demand is like.
They got big-time national (US) exposure with the piece on TV. Before that, they had a lot of regional press (Chicago). Not to mention the buzz just within the harp community (of which we're just a tiny portion here) as they were getting this thing off the ground. I think it's safe to say that the demand has simply been overwhelming, and maybe from the very start.
So, what do you do if you're Brad? You make an estimate based on what you know and you tell people about how long they're gonna have to wait. Inherent in that is some guesswork.
People quit, machines malfunction, supplies don't come in as expected. Maybe you get diarrhea, your mom dies, your car breaks down, you lose the key to the shop. And maybe you don't do everything you can control 100% right either.
Oh wait -- this is a business too. They gotta keep books, do payroll properly, withhold taxes, pay bills, keep the bank happy, pay off the credit card, hire people, fire people. There's a million moving parts in all this. It ain't easy.
So, to the folks that have one on order: You've got every right to be anxious. I suspect an e-mail or call to Harrison is your best bet for easing your mind.
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John
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Buddha
2421 posts
Sep 08, 2010
6:26 AM
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I expect the B-Rad to look and feel even better in the future. I've been talking with Brad on how to improve his harmonica and he's going to implement my ideas.
The B-Radical does not compare to a good custom harmonica but my personal mission is to raise the bar of all things harmonica and my contributions to Harrison Harmonicas and Suzuki will be apparent in the near future.
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"All is bliss"
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toddlgreene
1752 posts
Sep 08, 2010
6:35 AM
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Good, Buddha. Get Suzuki to use something other than ET tuning(compromised!) on their harps other than the Manji, now that you have their attention.
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Crescent City Harmonica Club
Todd L Greene, Co-Founder
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ness
286 posts
Sep 08, 2010
6:41 AM
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That's an admirable goal, Buddha.
Can you share, even in a general way, what improvements you're talking about? Not looking to get trade secrets, just some idea of where things are being improved. Also -- I didn't know you were working with Suzuki. That's pretty cool too.
There's lotsa room in the harp world for everybody, I think. Top customizers will never go out of demand, and there's a place for higher-quality stock harps in addition to the stuff that's already out there.
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John
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N.O.D.
173 posts
Sep 08, 2010
7:15 AM
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Just who is going to Talk to Hohner:(
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I feel left out:(
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Buddha
2422 posts
Sep 08, 2010
7:20 AM
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I've talked to Hohner but they have their way of doing things. Steve Baker likes what I do with harps but in ultimately, "real" players are not the market Hohner caters to.
@Ness - no interested in sharing just yet, at least not until I see the improvements. However, these are things I already do to my own harps.
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"All is bliss"
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barbequebob
1214 posts
Sep 08, 2010
10:57 AM
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From Buddha ---- "I've talked to Hohner but they have their way of doing things. Steve Baker likes what I do with harps but in ultimately, "real" players are not the market Hohner caters to."
Chris, you've got that 100% right and the harp manufacturers from Hohner to just about anyone else you can name outside of Harrison is NOT catered to real players but to newbies and amateur players and for them to do the kind of things even Brad Harrison is doing for a production line harp, just on the labor costs alone, is FAR too expensive and requires tons of hand labor, which is basically what you're getting from Brad and if you guys want that kind of quality (tho let's face it, it'll NEVER be as good as something from a top customizer), you are gonna have long waits and high prices because hand labor is NOT cheap and the kind of detail work many players want costs money.
Take buying a Rolls Royce, probably the most famous luxury car of all. Price is gonna be at leat $200K, and the waiting time, and I know this for a FACT, is a minimum of 18 months, and that's considered a production line vehicle, but unlike buying something like a Chevrolet or a Kia, the detail work to make sure everything works right and FITS right, they cannot just spit out parts by the millions per minute and the time spent on the hand labor aspect (and most robotics can NOT come close to high quality hand labor when it comes to proper fit and finish alone) is both extremely time consuming and very expensive.
If you want fast and cheap, go buy stuff from all the other manufacturers because in order for them to get stuff at prices you all bitch and moan about, there has to be TRUCKLOADS of corner cutting and severe comprimising.
It makes sense that Brad had to change things on the design because what may work as a custom siutation, often times doesn't work particularly well on a production line and so things do have to be changed AKA comprimised to make that work.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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Buddha
2424 posts
Sep 08, 2010
11:18 AM
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Suzuki is committed to "real" players and that's one of the major reasons I've committed to working with them.
I just spoke with Brad yesterday and he's still tweaking things and said he's got a new reed profile he'd like me to try. I think it's great that he's not complacent with his design process. He's always researching new things and was open to my suggestions to improve the B-rad. Complacency generally equals failure and Kudos to Brad for always looking to improve his product.
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"All is bliss"
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bluesharper
139 posts
Sep 08, 2010
11:49 AM
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Quit dissing hohner! I can name a "real" player who uses hohner stock! and more
Jon G.I.N.D.C.K
Is he a newbie because he uses hohner?
Dan gage
Adam Gussow
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Ms series rule!!!
My facebook
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000936564031
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bluemoose
289 posts
Sep 08, 2010
11:54 AM
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So if Brad comes up with a new really killer reed profile I guess in theory you could order up a set for your B-rad key and swap them in yourself. Sweet.
(Nick, pretty sure Brad mails world wide. Having a European distributer is probably a couple years down the road.)
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Buddha
2425 posts
Sep 08, 2010
12:00 PM
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nobody is saying "real" players don't play hohners. I like Hohners and they are what I have been playing for the past 25 years.
I said Hohner doesn't cater to "real" players and they have even stated that pro harp players are not their target audience. I spoke to some of the Hohner guys as SPAH a few weeks ago and they do some things to help pro players and I was even offered an Elite Level Endorsement that is given out to very few players but what that endorsement entails isn't really that much different from their regular endorsement.
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"All is bliss"
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MrVerylongusername
1221 posts
Sep 08, 2010
12:11 PM
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@Bluemoose
Yes, Brad mails worldwide, but transatlantic postage, insurance, import taxes and handling charges almost double the cost to UK harpers. It's already an expensive harp. Given that those factors take it well over the price of a top-end custom and the lead time is comparable (or worse) there's precious little incentive to buy one
When Jason was still involved with HH, I raised that point and he said he would ask Brad, but there doesn't seem to be any news on that front.
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LIP RIPPER
296 posts
Sep 08, 2010
2:15 PM
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So, Chris are you going to start offering Manji's with with your techniques incorporated into it? That'd be a really killer package. The Manji already has the cover plates fastened the same way which I thought was interesting and I have to ask myself, would I prefer another B-rad or four stock Manji's. Maybe I should Ebay my A B-rad.
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Buddha
2426 posts
Sep 08, 2010
3:22 PM
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yes, I will be offering Super Manjis very soon. I still need to finish the CAD drawing for the Comb and then port it to my CAM software for my CNC machine.
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"All is bliss"
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groyster1
445 posts
Sep 08, 2010
4:13 PM
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@Buddha
super manjis sound very interesting have bought 3 manjis in last 2 months they are great but have 2 old mbs customized recently and now understand all this customizing talk holds water
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boris_plotnikov
235 posts
Sep 08, 2010
10:34 PM
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OT:
Buddha
Is it possible to emboss manji's slot for a full lenght?
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Excuse my bad English. Click on my photo or my username for my music.
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Buddha
2427 posts
Sep 08, 2010
11:23 PM
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@boris
yes, you need a special tool to do it right.
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"All is bliss"
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boris_plotnikov
236 posts
Sep 08, 2010
11:30 PM
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Buddha
Is it a secret tool or you can show it?
Something like this?
https://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dckkn2d6_22m6mx4gf8
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Excuse my bad English. Click on my photo or my username for my music.
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Buddha
2428 posts
Sep 08, 2010
11:56 PM
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no, that item doesn't work as well as this one.
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"All is bliss"
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Andrew
1168 posts
Sep 09, 2010
1:16 AM
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Chris, I like the contributions you've made to this thread, but this rings warning bells with me:-
"I just spoke with Brad yesterday and he's still tweaking things and said he's got a new reed profile he'd like me to try. I think it's great that he's not complacent with his design process. He's always researching new things and was open to my suggestions to improve the B-rad."
If this is a production harp, then Brad needs to PRODUCE it, and it sounds to me like he may be a just a habitual tweaker, and this will get in the way of production. Has he got some kind of a business manager actually guiding him?
Think about those 9 personality profiles, where you have the finisher/polisher, the idealist/innovator and so on. Has Brad got the right balance going on there?
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Andrew,
gentleman of leisure,
noodler extraordinaire.
Last Edited by on Sep 09, 2010 1:17 AM
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sammyharp
12 posts
Sep 09, 2010
2:54 AM
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@ Andrew-
I think it would be really bad if Brad was NOT trying to improve on what he's currently producing. He may be behind schedule and have massive back orders, but that's no reason to just produce, produce, produce, and not have 1 eye on the future of his business. Since his goal is to produce the best production harps out there, it's also his responsibility to constantly tweak and improve his setup. All good instrument makers do this, it's simply part of the job.
I think it very well may be that Harrison has back orders on a far greater scale than they could've ever anticipated. I just emailed with them about my harps (1 ordered in june '09, the other in February '10) and should be recieving them later this month. As long as the wait has been, They have been instantaneous about answering my emails and keeping me informed of how the process is shaping up. I don't see any reason for warning bells.
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Andrew
1169 posts
Sep 09, 2010
4:13 AM
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"I think it would be really bad if Brad was NOT trying to improve on what he's currently producing."
The problem is, is he currently actually producing?
Also, if what is current is the best it can be, then tweaking is a sign of insecurity, so it may be bad - it may just be OCD.
"He may be behind schedule and have massive back orders, but that's no reason to just produce, produce, produce,"
Err, I think a lot of people might disagree with you there!
"and not have 1 eye on the future of his business."
If he doesn't produce, his business has no future.
"Since his goal is to produce the best production harps out there, it's also his responsibility to constantly tweak and improve his setup."
Well, that doesn't follow logically (unless you had in mind keeping one step of ever-encroaching competition, when there's no real competition), and part of the initial hype was that the development work had already been done. Jason showed us the 50,000 dollar harp to prove it.
"All good instrument makers do this, it's simply part of the job."
Once they are established, maybe. Brad is not yet established and he runs the risk that he never will be. You can't run before you can walk.
"I think it very well may be that Harrison has back orders on a far greater scale than they could've ever anticipated."
the solution to that being....?
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Andrew,
gentleman of leisure,
noodler extraordinaire.
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LIP RIPPER
297 posts
Sep 09, 2010
6:22 AM
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For me to read that things are changing, different this or that leaves me to think that I may not have got what I bargained for. If todays is far superior to yesterdays what am I left with? I'm just sharing my thoughts here since I have one of the harps. Looking back, I know better than to buy the first of any new model. What I, we, were sold on is this harp would be the best ever prodution harp and their wouldn't be any need to wait for a custom because this was going to have it all and with no wait. Drive to Guitar Center and pickem up. If you hurt a reed go back get buy just the one reed. This is the bill of goods we were sold, am I wrong?
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Andrew
1170 posts
Sep 09, 2010
6:29 AM
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Exactly, LR. If Brad is improving, he needs to market it as a more expensive model, otherwise people will feel ripped-off.
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Andrew,
gentleman of leisure,
noodler extraordinaire.
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Buddha
2429 posts
Sep 09, 2010
6:32 AM
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you guy should note that his recent reed tweaking is probably my fault. The B-Rad is fine the way it is and I think he simply wants to make the best product possible. At SPAH, I let him play one of my Buddha harps, Brad was simply blown away by the response and volume I'm able to generate with my reed work and that may have put a bug in his ear that he can do better.
Brad has always been a top notch customizer and it was an interesting exchange between us because I would play his harp for a second and say..."Ah you did XXXX to XXXX!" And he would do the same with my work. We exchanged ideas and thats something that makes his work and my work better.
I also know how to make Super B-Rads now but my fear is it would be too cost prohibitive for most.
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"All is bliss"
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sammyharp
13 posts
Sep 09, 2010
6:39 AM
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"is he currently actually producing?"
Obviously he is. There are many personal accounts of people getting their instruments, and I don't think there should be any doubt that they are producing instruments now. The rate of production is debatable.
"if what is current is the best it can be, then tweaking is a sign of insecurity, so it may be bad - it may just be OCD."
As someone who has worked with several top-level brass instrument manufacturers, I can assure you that they don't get to that level without being obsessive. There's always things you can improve, no matter how good the product is. If it weren't any Brad Harrisons or Joe Filiskos in the world, the harmonica wouldn't be at the level it's at today. In any case, I don't understand what is wrong with this. It's perfetly possible to do development and production simultaneously, as long as you keep a balance going.
As far as Brad having more on his plate than anticipated, that's the reason he's training more people to work at an extremely high level in order to meet demand. You can't learn to assemble instruments overnight, it takes time.
On one statement I wan't precise enough. I meant to say his goal is to produce the best production harps possible.
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LIP RIPPER
298 posts
Sep 09, 2010
7:27 AM
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Thanks Chris, I was wondering about that. Honestly, I know you could pull more out of my B-rad.
LR
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Andrew
1171 posts
Sep 09, 2010
7:29 AM
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"as long as you keep a balance going"
Yes, I pointed this out 8 postings up. The signs are that Brad needs help in finding the balance.
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Andrew,
gentleman of leisure,
noodler extraordinaire.
Last Edited by on Sep 09, 2010 7:31 AM
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LIP RIPPER
299 posts
Sep 09, 2010
7:37 AM
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As far as Hohner and others producing the best of the best harps let's face it. How much demand is there? How many pro players are there in this world? Is there enough to justify the means? I don't know. Brad's gonna found out, that's for sure. The companies success is riding on it.
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