Woody
27 posts
Sep 01, 2010
6:09 PM
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Hi everyone
I have been playing harp for 15 months.
I am seeking that 'Pat Ramsey' smooth distorted
tone............
My Laney HCM 1x12 60watt transistor amp does a reasonable
job on my gigs...but falls short of
always delivering a decent harp tone.
I can't afford a HarpGear amp........hence..
What stock guitar valve amps might suit this beginner?
Thanks
Woody
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Electric Harp....I just love it.
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N.O.D.
153 posts
Sep 01, 2010
6:26 PM
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Hi Bro have you looked at the Harp Gear Rock Bottom Model it's there entry leval Amp:)
now for the few extra $200 ya trying to save it won't happen buying a cheap Guitar Tube amp, ie Epiphone VJ
you will want to swap tubes do mods down the track,
there goes your $200 smackers out the window Bro,Calm Down wait ya time save ya Bucks if ya going for a Cheapo Valve amp go for thew Rock Bottom:) get it right the 1st time:)
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Cheers Bro:)
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ZackPomerleau
1063 posts
Sep 01, 2010
6:27 PM
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NOD knows where it is at.
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Joe_L
586 posts
Sep 01, 2010
6:44 PM
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Whichever amp inspires you to play more is the best amp for you. My suggestion is to try a lot of amps before laying out some dough on one.
If you must get one, get a small one that has good resale value like a Fender Pro Jr. They are cheap, plentiful and sound good. If you can get a good sound out of a Pro Jr, you'll sound good through most other amps.
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N.O.D.
154 posts
Sep 01, 2010
9:34 PM
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Bro the 1st Amp Buyers mistake is to buy a Guitar amp
to Play Harp, Bro I'm not going to tell you what amp is best for you won't happen i don't know:)
befor some one chimes in with rudeness telling you
that you won't sound like this Chap just buying an amp and Hay Presto you are Pat Ramsey sorry Bro:(
To put it kindly you are makeing mistakes a rookie of 15 months Playing time will make, prepare to spend up big Bro:)
Ok Fender Pro Junior USA $349 $400 Guitar amp:(
you will want to swap tubes buy a fist full $100 Bucks
maybe more,
you will get hung up on NOS tubes buy a fist full $200 + bucks, then theres all them recap Mod kits you can buy $45 $80,
after market Transformers $75 $125
geeze we better replace that Speaker what do we want CELESTION WEBER JENSEN $175 cheapo, Top Shelf $200 $300,
thats not good enough lets get a custom Finger Joint Pine Cab $195:)
Bro like i say i can't tell you what is the best amp
for you, may be find out what Pat used That would be a good start:)
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15 months playin Hay?
how deeps them pokets son?
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bigd
209 posts
Sep 01, 2010
10:08 PM
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You could also input "harp amp", in the search field of ebay thereby kind of marrying the above advisors (a guitar amp modded for harp already or a harp voiced amp or vintage that serves a harp well by a seller with a great rating). And you can go to the harp section of the Weber board where a lot of the amp experts post asking for advice on any potential ebay finds: Weber harp discussion: http://www.tedsforums.com/forum/index.php?board=7.0
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Joe_L
591 posts
Sep 01, 2010
10:39 PM
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@NOD - My first amp was a 50 watt solid state Yamaha guitar amp. I spent a long time practicing with it trying to get some old school tone out of it. I had varying degrees of success. It wasn't the best amp, but it kept me playing and trying to develop some skills.
Regarding the Pro Junior, why would you replace all of that stuff? It's completely unnecessary. I bought and played a used Pro Jr for a couple of years. It was a great amp. I played it stock for probably a year, before I bought a new speaker. While it improved the sound a bit, I could have easily not done the speaker swap.
No one ever complained about the sound that I was getting out of that amp. It's a good cheap way to get into amplified harp.
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LittleJoeSamson
444 posts
Sep 02, 2010
3:53 AM
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Woody....what kind of sound are you looking for ? Will determine the type of amp.
Short answer: IF you go new, you will pay primo $$$ for overpriced boutique rigs dedicated for harp. It's a niche market, and we harpers must be known for having too much $$$ or too little brains, or both.
If you have any git friends, inquire if they have some valved amps that are unsatisfactory. Often...after an amp has some time on it, the tubes get saggy and the speaker gets flabby.
Sounds off to a guitar freak...but can be right for us harp geeks.
The EV Jr. is a good starter, with tube swaps.
The Blackheart amps are better, if you can find them.
Get a good tube amp, and don't wonder about tone.
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5F6H
295 posts
Sep 02, 2010
5:10 AM
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@NOD "Bro the 1st Amp Buyers mistake is to buy a Guitar amp" Amps are amps, they don't know whether they are guitar amps, or harp amps, or trumpet amps, or whatever. A few out of the box amps are pretty good for harp, some are as good as anything yet conceieved, irrespective of what the guy trying to sell it calls it.
I'm a bit confused why people are suggesting 5-15W amps to replace a 60W gigging amp (though the Pro Jr does punch well above its weight, as does the Laney LC15)? Assuming that you want similar or better power output look for a 2nd hand Blues Deville (not Hot Rod Deville), Fender Custom Vibrolux Reverb, Fender 59 Reissue Bassman.
+1 for the Rock Bottom, if a lined out 5W amp is the kind of thing you might find giggable (you will need some method to monitor the amp on stage, careful nt to overcook the volume on a small amp lined out, otherwise you'll sound like a wasp in a jam jar, let the PA do the work).
Little Joe, "boutique" amps aren't particularly expensive in real terms, Sonny Jrs/HG50/Meteors are in fact CHEAP, even a Victoria is cheap compared to what the original amps cost in their heyday. Fender handwired versions of the same amps available today are no cheaper. Most of these "expensive" amps (Vero/Allessandro/Clarke/Kendrick etc) are bought by guitar players, they cost what they cost to build when you employ craftsmen to build them (hourly rates for labour will actually be surprisingly low!). I have easily spent £10K+ over the last 15yrs chasing down & buying/building amps (I'm certainly not alone in this)...in comparison, one amp at £2-3K, that I could pass on to my grandchildren (with a service every 20yrs) would be a bargain!
Woody, I'd give you the same advice I'd give anyone, try out any new prospective purchase, side by side with your current amp, to be sure you are moving "up the ladder" rather than accross to a different ladder. Do not sell your curent amp to buy something else purely on testimonials.
Last Edited by on Sep 02, 2010 8:10 AM
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MrVerylongusername
1216 posts
Sep 02, 2010
8:06 AM
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5F6H wrote:
"Woody, I'd give you the same advice I'd give anyone, try out any new prospective purchase, side by side with your current amp, to be sure you are moving "up the ladder" rather than accross to a different ladder. Do not sell your curent amp to buy something else purely on testimonials."
One of the best pieces of advice I've seen in a long time. Well said.
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Joe_L
593 posts
Sep 02, 2010
8:09 AM
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I didn't read the whole original post. I saw the I've been playing for 15 months thing and thought he was new to amplified harp.
If you're looking for a big amp, I would track down a reissue Bassman with four blue frame Eminence speakers. I was looking for one, but I didn't buy one. I found a good deal on a Super Sonny before I found a good deal on a Bassman.
If not that, I would buy a Super Reverb.
Last Edited by on Sep 02, 2010 8:11 AM
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N.O.D.
156 posts
Sep 02, 2010
8:03 PM
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I'm a bit confused why people are suggesting 5-15W amps to replace a 60W gigging amp
I'm a bit confused why poeple are suggesting
amps that maybe out of your price range
look for a 2nd hand Blues Deville, Fender Custom Vibrolux Reverb, Fender 59 Reissue Bassman.
what part of this simple sentance can't people comprehend that your budget is tight,
( I can't afford a HarpGear amp )
i suggested a Harp gear because it has a line out it don't matter what the output, if it's played Via the PA or Mic'ed up:)
like is say nobody can say what amp is best for you Woody mate:(
May be try setting up your amp clean get a tube Pre amp look at Lone Wolf Pedals, if you get a lone wolf Pedal Ya got a good start to add to your Tool Box, when you do buy a Real Harp Amp:)
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Did i mention Tools
it Pisses me off when i get @ in my Face
and Tude :/
Last Edited by on Sep 02, 2010 8:05 PM
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rbeetsme
295 posts
Sep 04, 2010
5:34 AM
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Greg Heumann at www.blowsmeaway.com sells modded Kalamazoo II amps that are reasonable and great for small and medium sized rooms. Look no further, give him a call.
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harpbreaker
2 posts
Sep 29, 2012
6:37 PM
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Hey all... Well,I have been blowin harps for a loong time and started reading some of these forums a few years back and now I have AMP fever again... and I gotta say... this is a cross between religious and politics when it comes to these discussions. I dig all the input from all... and seem to be drawn to 5F6H whomever you are.. I like your logic, experience and cool demeanor. So used to play a truckload of R&R and still have the Bad Monkey to prove it.. but the last few years... been in a cool 4some that does some mellower Blues... damn near jazz originals..but we are moving into some bigger venues... We don't even have drums but an incredible Stand Up bass dude. Anyway... I type too much...BUT been lookin for a new tube box after layin down some tracks in a studio to clean up some songs... I have like 10 pages of notes as to who says what amp is best... I have about 3 myself but have been living on a 60W digital Crate for years.. it's durable and has 2 channels and overdrive and real reverb and I run a pedal anyway... But I have a guitar friend in Memphis who has a 3 year old Deville 410 that is sanitary and biased for low overdrive. It sounds great but a local music store here said that would be insane.. I need to stick with a single 12 and not too much power for getting the crunch out. Sh*t... I don't know but I am leaning at the Deville and keep the old 5 Watt tube Univox for practice... Just brainstorming here as my first ever entry. And thanks for everyone's input ... this forum is like a music peice itself..
Karlos the Harpbreaker said all that!
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Rick Davis
765 posts
Sep 29, 2012
8:19 PM
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Which harp amp is best? Hoo Boy....
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
There are better choices out there than the Deville 410. Take your time and get some suggestions and try as many amps as you can. You'll make the right choice.
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-Rick Davis
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5F6H
1387 posts
Sep 30, 2012
2:32 AM
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@ Harpbreaker - The Deville is a great bang for the buck, ideally it needs a few resistor/cap changes ($10 in parts, 1 hour labour to fit), possibly a preamp tube too (search this forum & Lone Wolf forum for Superbee's Deville experiences, Aki Kumar uses one too).
I'm not crazy about the build quality, but that is typical of mass produced amps these days (the Fender RIs are much better) & there is plenty of info on the web on how to replace things like input jacks should they fail.
Volume & tonewise, they're pretty good.
I know a guy who has/had/played through most of the commonly mentioned harp amps, also has an impressive selection of 4x10 & 3x10 Fenders...he gigs his 3x10" modified Blues Deluxe as regularly as anything else & has just bought another that will be converted to 4x10. Deville & Blues Deluxe share 98% of the same circuit, the old (non "RI) Blues Deluxes had issues with channnel switching circuitry resistors detaching themselves from the board & killing amp signal (PITA to fix) but the Devilles don't seem to suffer as badly in that respect. With the Blues Deluxe "RI" Fender have taken steps to address the issue.
There are better amps in terms of build quality, seviceability & investment, but not very often at used Deville prices. I guess if you had money for one of these better quality amps, you wouldn't be considering the Deville.
Another route would be to fit the Univox with a line out, either with the on-board speaker or a load box & run it to the PA/bigger amp.
http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j388/MWJB/Misc%20Amp%20Stuff/5Wampspeakerloadlineoutboxdiag.jpg
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Last Edited by on Sep 30, 2012 2:43 AM
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arnenym
77 posts
Sep 30, 2012
2:33 AM
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It seems like people don't read the first post, the first question!
Pat Ramsey used 2 Tweed princeton and a gigantic American mic.It sounds as a dynamic mic but i am not sure what element he used.
Warning! A tweed princeton and a fender Pro jr do not have the same sound. Pro junior is a shrill and hard sounding amp. You have to change a lot of stuff in it to get a playable amp. It make it cost you more money in the end to buy a halfway harp amp and mod it. i know i've done it a lot of times.
The only guitar amp you can buy now who sound a little Ramsey is a VHT.
There is another way you could go if you want to have / need the 60 watts! Buy a Lonewolf Harp Attack.
If you can't afford a harpgear rock bottom you maybe should look for
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jbone
1064 posts
Sep 30, 2012
6:45 AM
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as you can see from the various directions people take, an amp and mic is very subjective to the individual. i have owned a lot of amps and played through many more over many years. used a lot of different mics too.
one thing i had to retrack on after a time was, my tone sucked partly because i was playing from my throat or nose or whatever, not from deep in my guts. in short my personal acoustic tone needed a lot of work as did my breathing technique. i took a few voice lessons which turned out to be breathing lessons and discovered how very shallow most of us breathe every day.
so before i could find "my" rig, i had to find "my" acoustic tone since this is what gets amplified later and sets me apart from a lot of folks.
it helped that i was learning to sing as well. and something that helped tremendously was getting out in the open and singing with no amp at all and then doing harp parts as well. i'm fortunate to have a partner who has done most of what i've asked of her musically, in other words she has been a harp player/singer's best friend musically! and out times on the street, at farmers' markets, and ampless in general have challenged me to find my tone and my volume without blowing up my vocal cords or very many harps at all.
after i had made progress this way i then got to both work with bands again and also my duo went electric with matching silvertone amps. the duo's last cd was recorded with no amplification at all. the next cd i am hoping to have a rhythm section and a lot of guests and make it an amped up party.
but to me, first and foremost, one MUST find inner tone. THEN try out amps and mics. a lower powered- under 25 watts- vintage tube amp is preferable, although there are some good small tube amps made these days. quite possibly you will want to research tube swapping to cut feedback in the pre amp section and also look at harp friendly speakers. and that's not the whole story.
there are a ton of mics that can sound good with a tube amp. i prefer either a controlled magnetic element, preferably an old one, a crystal like what was originally in the jt30's, or a good dynamic mic which is a high impedance as well.
if you go the way a lot of us went you will be trying- maybe buying- a lot of amps and mics and gadgets to find that tone. which is not a bad thing. but just be sure YOUR tone is all there first or you will waste some time and dollars, and the trip to your ideal may be longer.
one last thought is, i wanted to sound like a lot of guys over a lot of years. who i ended up sounding like was my own self but with elements of a lot of my heroes thrown in. if you study the guys who influenced Ramsey and go from there that's a good place to start.
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