I have serious doubts about 99.9% of diatonic players playing jazz. So prove me wrong. This is me 22 years ago. Let's see what ya got.Please don't show me somebody else just what you do. Sorry Chris your not allowed to post.LOL
I'm certainly not going to be one to prove you wrong. The jazz guys i play with baby me by selecting what I call "R&B style jazz" material that I can sort of fake my way through, or else some jazz tunes that I can use blues scale, natural minor scale or dorian scale to solo over--sometimes having to change harps as the chords change. Nothing harmonically or melodically complicated. It's a big accomplishment for me if i can learn to play the heads correctly.
Most of the time at a jazz gig, I sit around and watch them play real jazz material that I could never make a serious attempt to play on, as i wait to be called up and be spoon fed simple shit I am able to sort of play. Frankly, I don't know why these guys keep inviting me back to do this, but they seem to enjoy it and the audience seems to like it. I'm not complaining since it's fun, I learn a lot and it's great for my musical development. But I don't delude myself into thinking I'm a jazz player. I was just posting about what keys are used when I play with these jazz guys.
Last Edited by on Aug 28, 2010 6:58 AM
Hey that's a start. Work your way in from there. A lot of community colleges have theory classes. They're a little lame because they don't understand jazz but It's a start. Try this on a C harp: Cmaj Dmin7 Emin7 Fmaj7 G7 Amin7 Bmin7b5 Cmaj7 as arpeggios up and back. One octave starting on on hole 1 or 4 if you don't want to deal with a lot of bends. These are the diatonic 7th chords for the key of C Major.
This is what I played with my first jazz teacher. When I went to school what did I see in my first Jazz piano class the same thing. First Jazz harmony class you guessed it. ----------
Thanks, Diggs,. I'll figure out the notes for those arpeggios. Learning to play them will be very good practice for me. i appreciate the tip.
I'm self taught but I've had the good fortune to play with a number of good musicians over the years and from them I've picked up a basic practical working knowledge of music theory. So i understand what you and the musicians i play with are talking about. I could stand to develop a better facility with chord structures, but learning arpeggios is certainly a very practical way to do that.
While we're at it, if you don't mind, what can you tell me about the ii-V change I hear so much about? I don't really understand its musical significance except that it's used in jazz quite a bit. How do I get that ii-V change on a diatonic? I guess the ii would be the Dmin7th and the V would be the G7. But how do I transpose this to second position?
Last Edited by on Aug 28, 2010 9:03 AM
Diggsblues, sweet and mellow playing. :) Here is my playing: Lullaby of birdland on diatonic harmonica (played half year ago)
I'm not jazz harmonica player but sometimes i like to play jazz on a diatonic harmonica. Now i dig into P.T. Gazell and half valves. :) He is one of my harmonica heroes :) especially in jazz. ---------- http://www.youtube.com/user/wheelharp
Last Edited by on Aug 28, 2010 11:54 AM
In my mind position start to fail at one point and talking in musical terms makes more sense. You got it right dmin7 G7. basically the tonal goes back to C major. Now second position implies something different than G major. The IImin7 V7 being Amin7 D7 etc. In Jazz most school use capitals for the Roman Numerals and name the chord. The lower case is classical theory. ----------
@Diggs: Thanks again. You remind me of one of the jazz band leaders I play with who has a Masters in Music. He has forbidden me to discuss music with him in terms of harmonica positions--he requires me to use key names or note names. And he is starting to require me to use letter names for notes instead of referring to numerical degrees of the scale, but he's not as strict about that.
In "Shaun's Song," to be released as part of my album release tomorrow night, I do something unusual. The scale degrees that are my melodic palette are entirely from the blues scale. I use the root, blue third, major third, fourth, flat fifth, major sixth (very rarely), and flat seventh. Straight blues.
But the melodies that I spin out from that melodic palette expand and compress in line with a rhythmic conception that is pure jazz. I play a three-note motif, then work seven or eight different changes on it--shortening some notes, lengthening others, morphing the motif by substituting other scale degrees. My chief inspirations were Sonny Rollins and, to some extent, Coltrane in "A Love Supreme."
It's jazz blues, but not in the expected way. I was quite consciously trying to create a new melodic language. (I'm sure it's a language Buddha created years ago, but that's another story. It's fun to reinvent the wheel.) The key thing though is that it's all done over one chord. There's absolutely no jazz harmony in the thing. No chord movement whatever. I never had the right kind of brain for that. I'm just not smart enough in the way that jazz players have to be. But the rhythmic-permutation feels natural to me. The versioning thing.
It takes the entire length of the track to demonstrate the concept, so unfortunately I can't post it here without giving the track away, and I've got recording studio bills to pay.
Actually, a sample will show what I mean:
Shaun's_Song
Last Edited by on Aug 28, 2010 7:40 PM
sammyharp That's a difficult change moving in half steps. That's the first jazz tune I learned. Nice keep it up. Interesting sound you got going there. ----------
Wheel nice playing. You didn't fall back into a lot of blues riffs like a lot of diatonic player do when they try to improvise on a jazz tune. ----------
"Try this on a C harp: Cmaj Dmin7 Emin7 Fmaj7 G7 Amin7 Bmin7b5 Cmaj7 as arpeggios up and back" @diggs ok i've given that a few days, what did they tell you at the second lesson?
Nice stuff Boris. Great groove on Cantaloupe Island. It's just must personal taste but I prefer the sound of the Chromatic on Bossa tunes.It just has smoother sound to me.
Conjob The rest of the first lesson: Play all the modes to all of chords. Play the Cmajor7 9#11 13 arpeggio. I did it all on a C chromatic.
Lesson 2: Do it all in G I think you get the picture. ----------
How you doin'
Last Edited by on Sep 01, 2010 3:09 AM
I'm still don't really know, what is the best to practice more: chromatic, diatonic or both. ---------- Excuse my bad English. Click on my photo or my username for my music.
