jonlaing
53 posts
Aug 24, 2010
7:25 PM
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So, I've been playing for just about a year, and I'm starting to use overblows fairly regularly. In particular the 6. Normally, I don't have any issues with squeaking, when I'm using a decent harp. However, I was learning a song from one of my favorite bands, and it required me to go from the 6OB to the 7B in eighth notes. Doing that I get a NAASTY squeal. Now I'm doing this on everything from a gapped Seydel BS to an OOTB Promaster, and it sounds exactly the same.
Does anyone know what I can do to make the transition cleaner and squeak free?
Last Edited by on Aug 24, 2010 7:25 PM
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RyanMortos
764 posts
Aug 24, 2010
7:45 PM
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Not that I've tried this combination of notes but my two cents:
My first thought would be to change those from eighth notes to whole notes or half notes and play at whatever speed it does not squeak & slowly work up to the faster tempo overtime. Just guessing that the speedy transition might be throwing off your breath control somewhere. It does sound like a tough transition. What do you think? I'm not sure what genre you're playing but I assume it's not classical, maybe try throwing in a regular 6blow/draw grace note between them?
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~Ryan
"I play the harmonica. The only way I can play is if I get my car going really fast, and stick it out the window." - Stephen Wright
Pennsylvania - H.A.R.P. (Harmonica Association 'Round Philly)
Contact:
My youtube account
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jonlaing
54 posts
Aug 24, 2010
7:52 PM
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Well the specific riff goes like this:
4- 5- 4- 6-
4- 5- 4- 6+
6+ 7 6+ 7 6+ 6-
I also have trouble holding an overblow for more than 3 seconds or so. I'm assuming it's an embouchure issue, but I'm not sure what specifically I can do to improve. I have my draw dropped just about as far as I can go and have the damn thing jammed in my mouth just shy of eating it. (I'm exaggerating a bit, but you get the idea).
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HarpNinja
583 posts
Aug 24, 2010
8:16 PM
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You might be playing them too hard. Also, if I play them too sharp, they squeal. So make sure you're in tune. I go from 6ob to 7blow or 7draw and back all the time. You just have to be slippery if that makes sense.
I keep telling myself to do a YouTube with the Manji I tweaked. If I get around to it, I'll make sure to move around those notes.
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Mike
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jonlaing
55 posts
Aug 24, 2010
9:01 PM
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Okay, the sharpness makes sense. Hell, when I do a 5OB I'm nearly a half step sharp of where I should be. Remind me again how to adjust the pitch. It it moving one's tongue forward? backward? something else entirely?
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jonlaing
56 posts
Aug 25, 2010
3:45 PM
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Okay, I think I've got it... at least to a place where I can practice and improve it... I was just kind of at a loss before.
I think what was happening was even though my jaw was in the right place, I had my tongue too close to the hole, so it was almost like I had my jaw really high up... my oral cavity was too small causing the wrong vibration.
So right after popping the reed I dropped and flattened my tongue ever so slightly till the ugly ringing goes away, and I can actually hold that overblow for until my breath runs out with no squeals.
Now I just gotta turn it into habit.
Thanks HarpNinja, I'm not sure if I was actually playing the note sharp, but screwing around with my embouchure in attempts to flatten the note did get me where I needed to be.
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blogward
148 posts
Aug 25, 2010
4:04 PM
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Beeswaxing (or whatever, but beeswax tastes good) the reed bases as seen on overblows.com can also help.
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jonlaing
57 posts
Aug 25, 2010
4:12 PM
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I've seen that, I even have the beeswax to do it. I was a little apprehensive, thought, because I heard it also deadens the sound a bit. I just got my first promaster and it sounds SO good... I wouldn't want to do anything to change the sound.
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arzajac
322 posts
Aug 25, 2010
6:19 PM
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I heard that Tinus uses way too much wax. I remember reading that you need about 1/100th of the amount shown on OverBlow.com. Basically, just put a hint of wax to fill in the junction between the rivet and the reedplate. Just a hint of wax.
I looked for the reference, but I can't find it right now. I may be wrong...
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Last Edited by on Aug 25, 2010 6:20 PM
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HarpNinja
584 posts
Aug 25, 2010
6:50 PM
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Don't do anything seen at overblow.com, lol. But yeah, you can use a tiny bit of wax/nail polish on the reed pad to try and stop the squeals. However, if you can play it as a clean single note, then you shouldn't need it.
I control all my bends with my tongue. The closer it is to my teeth, the higher in pitch the ob. On a solid OB harp, I can bend the 6ob up to the same note as 7blow. On the Manji I just set up - with minimal work - I can bend the 4ob up forever. The 5ob bends quite a bit, but the 6ob need to be adjusted as it is a little leaky. No way I can bend it to 7blow yet....yet.
Another thought is that you can retune the 7draw down half a step.
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Mike
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jonlaing
58 posts
Aug 25, 2010
7:15 PM
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I don't want to have to retune anything when the notes are already available. I should just work on getting a cleaner overblow.
It seems whatever I learned earlier, I've lost since picking up my harp again... I saw something online that showed a very modest amount of wax on the edge of the reed, just before the reed slot... I don't like saying "rivet" because technically the harp in question has the reeds spot welded, not riveted.
Do people like Buddha and Joe Spiers use wax/polish on a squealy reed? Or are there more advanced customizing techniques that they use?
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Buddha
2386 posts
Aug 25, 2010
8:48 PM
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I don't use wax for reed squeal.
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"All is bliss"
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Todd Parrott
178 posts
Aug 25, 2010
9:23 PM
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I'm pretty sure that Joe doesn't have to use wax for squeals. None of my Spiers harps have wax and they are 100% perfect for overblows and overdraws.
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jonlaing
60 posts
Aug 25, 2010
11:41 PM
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@Buddha I mean, I'm sure you've spent a long ass time figuring out how to prevent the squeal, but if you don't mind sharing your secrets... how do you prevent it?
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Buddha
2389 posts
Aug 26, 2010
5:36 AM
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I give lessons and clinics on such things. Feel free to contact me offlist for more details.
When I have the balls to ask how to do your job for free, I will.
THe point of my response is, the BS you find on the internet is wrong and since you have the answer then you can find the solution that gets you there.
If you can't, I'm happy to teach you for a nominal fee.
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"All is bliss"
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jonlaing
61 posts
Aug 26, 2010
10:50 AM
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@Buddha I didn't mean to offend in asking. I understand that you do top notch work, and your special techniques are what keep your work in such high demand, and regard. I'm just eager to learn and still in college, hence dirt poor. I figured just coming out and asking was worth a shot.
I'll see if I can figure it out myself, and if not, when I get some money (if ever) I'll contact you about it.
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arzajac
324 posts
Aug 26, 2010
1:54 PM
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Buddha:
As a dog trainer, you should know the importance of being consistent. You as well as Joe Spiers and many others often answer questions here. Gussow gives away a lot of knowledge for free - that's something that attracts a lot of users.
Jumping down someone's throat for asking a direct question in this context is rude.
Just sayin'
Doesn't it say somewhere "But please refrain from flaming, insulting, or otherwise impugning the intelligence or good intentions of your fellow board members"?
Jonlaing is neither impertinent nor ignorant - you are inconsistent.
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Last Edited by on Aug 26, 2010 1:54 PM
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Buddha
2391 posts
Aug 26, 2010
3:04 PM
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and where exactly am I inconsistent?
I don't give out harp set up tips.
However I have been more than generous with my information regarding how to be a better player and musician. I am VERY Consistent.
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"All is bliss"
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jim
341 posts
Aug 26, 2010
3:13 PM
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jonlaing,
embossing will solve the squeal. Just be patient and take your time. This needs time and accuracy to do right (not too little and not too much).
wax is a bad idea because it's an alien substance inside the harmonica. Better to be patient and to solve the problem forever. In other words - wax is a temporarily solution, and it is also a failure to solve the squeal the right way (with embossing).
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www.truechromatic.com
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jonlaing
66 posts
Aug 26, 2010
3:20 PM
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@jim I was thinking that might be the culprit. It's the air leaking around the side or the reed right? I've tried embossing before, and I never feel like I'm doing it right. How much pressure are you supposed to put on the reed plate and how many passes should it take?
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jim
343 posts
Aug 26, 2010
10:08 PM
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you will know when it's enough.
one of the places where airtightness makes a difference is the rivet side. Embossing can be done there, only with different tools.
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www.truechromatic.com
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GermanHarpist
1734 posts
Aug 27, 2010
4:10 AM
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jonlaing,
You're trying to move the metal from the black to the gray. Metal starts moving at a certain pressure. The goal is to be as close to this pressure, so that you need to make few passes. However you also don't want to press too hard so that you canstantly need to free the reed... The cleaner you emboss the less you have to free the reed.
I should add that the more the slot is embosseed the bigger the embossed surface and thus you have to increase the acutal pressure so that the metal continues to move.
About how fast you want to slide over the slot, it should be a rather slow but consistent movement from the rivet to the tip.
You'll get the hang of it to have enough pressure so that something with the slot happens.. however beware of fracturing the metal through too much pressure. You'll feel it (through your embossing tool) when the surface get's rough.
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Don't engage in negativity!
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jonlaing
70 posts
Aug 27, 2010
11:56 AM
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@GermanHarpist Thanks for the diagram. I know tuning forks are popular embossing tools, but let's say that I don't have one, and don't know where to obtain one, what is a good alternative?
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GermanHarpist
1738 posts
Aug 27, 2010
1:19 PM
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http://www.modernbluesharmonica.com/board/board_topic/5560960/594970.htm
This is Rick Eppings solution. Maybe others can chip in, Jim? :)
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Don't engage in negativity!
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jim
346 posts
Aug 27, 2010
2:34 PM
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I use a screwdriver near the rivet side. It requires precision and exact pressure. And I do it on steel reeds ONLY.
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www.truechromatic.com
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jonlaing
73 posts
Aug 27, 2010
6:42 PM
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Hey I just wanted to thank everyone on the great information. My Promaster now is a squeak free overblow machine!
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jonlaing
74 posts
Aug 27, 2010
6:46 PM
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I also just found out that it's now squeak free on OD 7 and 9... I've never overdrawn before! very exciting!
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