shanester
171 posts
Aug 19, 2010
7:57 AM
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I was at the rock jam that I do on Tuesday nights, and when I got there, the keyboard player and lead guitarist requested that I try playing directly through the pa.
I have always brought a little solid state amp I have with spring reverb, have to admit the tone has never really blown me away, but that amp seemed more stable and loud than my champ, and I have a lot to learn about that stuff I guess.
Well I played direct through the pa and I loved how easy it was to cut through the mix, and I could still overdrive my sm57 through it.
It doesn't have the tube dynamics, but as far as having an individual voice I kind of love the relative lack of coloring, it seems like it lets everything I am doing with embouchure etc come through very clear, and can still generate a raunchy cupped tone.
I am going to keep messing with this. I love the idea of carrying just harps, mic and cords! Simplicity always turns me on!
Now I HAVE to get a volume pad, then I could play country clean to blues dirty without walking to the pa!
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Shane
1shanester
"Keep it coming now, keep it coming now,
Don't stop it no don't stop it no no don't stop it no don't stop it no no..."
- KC and the Sunshine Band
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htownfess
150 posts
Aug 19, 2010
8:31 AM
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That is a really good thing to do--it makes you a more resourceful player. I got a lot better when I went to one jam weekly for more than a year with just a stick mic I could cup well. Take advantage of the even response and work the top half of the harp more.
A simple EQ pedal's overall level slider would give you a stompable volume change, but think about cleaning up simply through lighter attack, different vibrato approach and looser cupping for country--combining that with switching to country note choices ought to make a big enough difference to cover both.
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shanester
174 posts
Aug 19, 2010
8:41 AM
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Thanks htownfess, I will take that on board for sure!
I'll look into the pedal, I'm intrigued, although my budget is way tight.
At the rock jam I use a lot of clean tone, we play some reggae, country rock, folk rock etc. When we got to a grittier number, I had to roll down quite a bit because once I tightened my cup, it was like blowing the Horn of Jericho!
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Shane
1shanester
"Keep it coming now, keep it coming now,
Don't stop it no don't stop it no no don't stop it no don't stop it no no..."
- KC and the Sunshine Band
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kudzurunner
1761 posts
Aug 19, 2010
8:43 AM
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There's one incredibly useful little trick you might try when playing through the PA. Visit the soundman and ask him which channel he's putting you through. Then tell him to pull your slider down a few db and turn up the trim knob--the preamp knob. If you find the sweet spot, that trim knob will give you some very useable distortion and compression. The higher the output of your mic, the less this is needed, since you'll tend to overdrive the input anyway, but if you're using a harp mic with less output, or if you're forced to use a PA mic, it's extremely useful.
People like to put down solid state distortion--"harsh"--but you can actually do quite well by turning up the trim, confining the distortion to the preamp stage, and then working the slider up to give you adequate room volume.
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shanester
175 posts
Aug 19, 2010
8:52 AM
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Thanks, Adam, I will check that out!
Yeah I am having a turn around about how I feel about the solid state distortion, especially when it is light and not in full digital crunch.
I see possibilities for a unique sound.
I remember how fresh the Police sounded when they first came out, playing solid state equipment.
I am also enrolled in the challenge of playing relatively "naked and unashamed", and what that will do for my playing!
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Shane
1shanester
"Keep it coming now, keep it coming now,
Don't stop it no don't stop it no no don't stop it no don't stop it no no..."
- KC and the Sunshine Band
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JohnnieHarp
35 posts
Aug 19, 2010
9:52 AM
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Shane, Richard Hunter has created a patch set for the Digitech RP355 multi-effects processor that is specific for harmonica.
The unit is easily transported and can be connected directly to the PA. Meets your needs of easy portability but gives you complete control over your sound. Make it as simple or complex as you like. Also has a loop function. And can be used with guitar (designed for this).
http://www.digitech.com/products/Multi-Effects/RP355.php
http://www.hunterharp.com/
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shanester
180 posts
Aug 19, 2010
10:06 AM
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Johnnie that is pretty neato.
Plus, I could try my hand at a li'l death metal harp!
Why tha' hell not?
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Shane
1shanester
"Keep it coming now, keep it coming now,
Don't stop it no don't stop it no no don't stop it no don't stop it no no..."
- KC and the Sunshine Band
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JohnnieHarp
37 posts
Aug 19, 2010
10:14 AM
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>Plus, I could try my hand at a li'l death metal harp!
Yeah, baby!!! Haaken uses the voice model in his chain of goodies.
I like that it is a very portable, flexible piece of equipment that can be used with other instruments so would be useful for years to come depending on your musical path.
Also, it seems to be good value. US$200 and solidly built. Has a USB port for computer connecting.
It's not battery operated but in combi with a portable power supply, could be used busking. Have seen buskers with a non battery amp using a portable power supply.
Last Edited by on Aug 19, 2010 10:17 AM
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harmonicanick
849 posts
Aug 19, 2010
10:24 AM
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yes, it's so much easier just to plug into the house pa
I just use a simple delay pedal into the pa, and then just try different settings as adam suggested
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barbequebob
1153 posts
Aug 19, 2010
10:53 AM
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The new version of the Harp Commander is set up to go thru the PA and actually get a Fender amp like sound thru the PA.
Whenever I play thru the PA, I don't request anything and just work with it and quit woorying about settings and stuff. It's always the great equalizer because if you got your s**t together, it's gonna show up and you don't, it's also gonna show up as well.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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shanester
182 posts
Aug 19, 2010
11:24 AM
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Yes barbequebob, that too. When I played through the pa, I was so loud and clear, and the keyboard and guit player had this song they were all excited about and had talked about a solo for me, and I totally layed an egg!.
But then after that song I played beyond myself, I gave up my concerns and went for it, and played not only tonally beyond what I have done, but on the last song we all did together, I did this arpeggiated thing in a solo duet with the keyboardist during a crescendo like I have never ever thought of playing or considered within my technical capabilities!
I think something about the naked and unashamed aspect of being loud and clear through the pa called that into being...
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Shane
1shanester
"Keep it coming now, keep it coming now,
Don't stop it no don't stop it no no don't stop it no don't stop it no no..."
- KC and the Sunshine Band
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Hobostubs Ashlock
971 posts
Aug 19, 2010
11:31 AM
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Shanester
My harmonica teacher Tony Eyers ,recomends a art pre amp for running into a PA to warm up the tone if you like a clean tone,he says there not for adding distortion though and there only about $30 bucks at musicians friend ive thought about giving one a try myself
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shanester
183 posts
Aug 19, 2010
11:38 AM
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I will check that out Hobostubs, the price sounds right!
Basically in a perfect world, I would like to have access to clean and distorted tones, with as little dependence on equipment as possible!
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Shane
1shanester
"Keep it coming now, keep it coming now,
Don't stop it no don't stop it no no don't stop it no don't stop it no no..."
- KC and the Sunshine Band
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Hobostubs Ashlock
974 posts
Aug 19, 2010
12:20 PM
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yea i like the idea of playing into a PA and only having to worry about your harps and cords,If i had the money I would try the lone wolf products ive heard good things on here about them,but im broke:-) so the art pre amp will probelly be the one i get when i do.
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Joe_L
553 posts
Aug 19, 2010
1:20 PM
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I like playing through the PA. I've never seriously considered buying a pre amp or amp modeler. I play traditional Blues. If James Cotton, Junior Wells or Louis Myers could play through a PA without extra stuff, I probably can too. Maybe someday I will be as good as those guys.
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htownfess
152 posts
Aug 19, 2010
1:25 PM
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That was a Lone Wolf Harp Attack pedal you were playing through at Dan Electro's, Shane--
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PaulM
43 posts
Aug 19, 2010
3:47 PM
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I've grown to love playing through the PA. I use a Harp Commander pre-amp sitting on a stool beside me because I like the control it gives me over my tone / sound.
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waltertore
865 posts
Aug 19, 2010
3:54 PM
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I always play through the PA. I use the same mic for vocals and harp via a boom stand and harp rack. Off the rack I still use the same PA mic for both vocals and harp. When recording, I use a large diaphram condensor mic that reflects the true sound of the acoustic harp. Clean tone shows just what you have with no smoke screens and playing off the mic lets you really use hand and mic proximety for tones/sounds. Walter
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walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year.
" life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
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continuous streaming - 200 most current songs
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Last Edited by on Aug 19, 2010 3:57 PM
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shanester
184 posts
Aug 19, 2010
5:42 PM
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Good to know that about that pedal htownfess. I certainly enjoyed the sound of that setup...that was my most positive amplified experience to date.
I could see using something like that for extra crunch or color, even though right now I'm kickin' it Junior Wells style for what it's doing for my chops!
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Shane
1shanester
"Keep it coming now, keep it coming now,
Don't stop it no don't stop it no no don't stop it no don't stop it no no..."
- KC and the Sunshine Band
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kudzurunner
1764 posts
Aug 19, 2010
5:47 PM
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Kenny Neal often plays through the PA, and he gets a great sound.
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barbequebob
1156 posts
Aug 19, 2010
5:56 PM
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Kenny had a helluva teacher, and that`s his father Raful Neal and his tone is pretty damned big.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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Joe_L
556 posts
Aug 19, 2010
5:58 PM
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Kenny Neal has beautiful tone. I had the chance to jam with him once. It was a lot of fun.
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shanester
185 posts
Aug 19, 2010
6:00 PM
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Yeah, I am realizing that a lot of the elements of over driven "Chicago" tone come from mic handling, and not "tube bloom" or whatever they call it, not that that is not some of the prettiest noise in the world.
But the compression is totally from mic cupping and embouchure...hey I'm starting to figure this stuff out!
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Shane
1shanester
"Keep it coming now, keep it coming now,
Don't stop it no don't stop it no no don't stop it no don't stop it no no..."
- KC and the Sunshine Band
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bacon-fat
16 posts
Aug 21, 2010
5:28 AM
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I stopped bringing my bassman to the weekly jam after being told I was both too loud and not loud.
Now I plug my CR bullet direct into the PA with no complaints, no loss of mic effects, and I can hear myself without straining my harps.
Nice to travel light; walk in and plug in.
Nice
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