bluesharper
89 posts
Aug 15, 2010
6:40 AM
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So first off I have two questions.
1. I noticed alot of harpers on the forum have some negativity towards the Ms series why?
2. What is the difference in the setup of a marine band to a blues harp ms. People are calling the marine band a handmade harp. I thought all harps where made by machines?
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groyster1
328 posts
Aug 15, 2010
6:51 AM
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@bluesharper
I think a big plus for the Ms series is that replacement reed plates are readily available-why throw a harp away when you blow out a reed?guitar players dont toss their guitar when a string breaks
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DirtyDeck
130 posts
Aug 15, 2010
7:36 AM
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I love the sound of Blues Harps, good volume too. The size also lies better in my gargantuan hands. (Not quite as scary as SonnyBoy's big finger) ;)
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Stickman
395 posts
Aug 15, 2010
8:22 AM
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I'm down with them. I like to combine to Blues Harp comb with the BR covers.
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The Art Teacher Formally Known As scstrickland
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htownfess
141 posts
Aug 15, 2010
8:24 AM
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The handmade series have their reeds riveted in and their tuning done by hand (people using dedicated machinery), though their gapping is automated.
Much of the bad MS reputation stems from the first generation, as Hohner tried to automate the entire process and the results tended to play badly--bad reed/slot tolerances aggravated the effect of bad gapping. Hohner also was rumored to be planning to phase out the handmade models in favor of these fully automated ones, and some players who loved the handmades have never forgiven Hohner for that, or for slapping the Meisterklasse name on a wholly different and inferior harmonica. They usually haven't played the current MS production, which is much better than the first generation was.
Some players don't feel the larger MS reeds are as nuanced or controllable as the handmade ones, but they don't get as worked up about that. The bigger reeds are probably more prone to torsional squeal and some people want to avoid that.
MS are fine now, no shame in liking them.
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Tuckster
719 posts
Aug 15, 2010
8:36 AM
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Well,that's good to hear. I was starting to wonder if I was missing something by using MS harps.I like being able to replace reed plates and not throwing the harp away. I do think they lack some nuance and some of them don't respond well to a softer attack. They lack a low level dynamic. Since all the bands I play with are always too loud,that's rarely a problem.
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bluesharper
94 posts
Aug 15, 2010
8:56 AM
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@ Tuckster
Out of curiosity what ms harp do you use?
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Big river harps forever!
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Tuckster
722 posts
Aug 15, 2010
9:02 AM
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I've got a mix. Blues Harps,Pro Harp in A & C,some Big Rivers. I have a Bb BR that has original reed plates. You can barely read the key stenciled on the comb and there's a wear spot on the comb where I tend to rest my finger. It's just one of those lucky OOTB accidents.
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Littoral
37 posts
Aug 15, 2010
9:47 AM
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Not sure why, but I'm guessing ignorance is bliss- at least in my case. I haven't even gapped any and they seem fine to me. Its what Im using in the video I just posted. That said, I have decided recently that "fine" ain't good enough so I'm working on old MB's now. We'll see.
Last Edited by on Aug 15, 2010 9:49 AM
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earlounge
134 posts
Aug 15, 2010
9:48 AM
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I thought MS harps had a wider reed/slot which is difficult to over blow. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
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Tuckster
725 posts
Aug 15, 2010
9:54 AM
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Not a problem for me,since I don't(can't) OB. But good question. They seemed to be gapped pretty wide.
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bluesharper
95 posts
Aug 15, 2010
11:16 AM
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After embossing my D blues harp ms overblows really well.
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htownfess
142 posts
Aug 15, 2010
11:40 AM
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"I thought MS harps had a wider reed/slot which is difficult to over blow. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong."
I don't think MS overbending is as simple as that single factor. With large-platform reeds (the Oskar/MS/recent Seydel size) torsional oscillation & resulting reed squeal tend to impede the overbend process more.
Possibly the biggest factor is that the customizing culture's initial overbending customers in the 1990s already favored the handmade models so strongly that most of the development work's been done with them. Builders know more about making handmades overbend well. But I was amused to look at Tinus' overblow.com site last week and notice that he was using MS plates to illustrate customising techniques: those are the plates he's worked with the most. Similarly, Ben Bouman is doing large-reed Seydels successfully.
The old yellow-brass MS plates were overbend-friendly for my customizing purposes. I don't like the red brass as much so far but Hohner does continue to develop new profiles.
Last Edited by on Aug 15, 2010 11:40 AM
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Ryan
347 posts
Aug 15, 2010
11:47 AM
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I personally just don't like the reeds very much. If you put some work into the harp they can play decently, but even then the reeds just feel "stiff"(that's the best way I can think of to describe it). The reeds from the "handmade series" just seem to play "smoother".
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Joe_L
539 posts
Aug 15, 2010
12:21 PM
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I like them. They are inexpensive and play pretty well.
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jim
305 posts
Aug 15, 2010
12:23 PM
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I'd say those are fine harmonicas, just less well set up than HM series.
They cost less and can be your first torture harmonica learning to customize.
Or you can get those for alternative tunings and keys you don't play often.
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www.truechromatic.com
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groyster1
334 posts
Aug 15, 2010
12:40 PM
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@jim
altho I do have big river harps would rather play my suzuki promaster in A or crossover in D and play the big river in Db
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jim
307 posts
Aug 15, 2010
12:41 PM
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That's exactly what I said :)
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www.truechromatic.com
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barbequebob
1129 posts
Aug 15, 2010
12:47 PM
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Well, I was one of the first to try the MS Marine Band prototype and that was a really awful harp. I've posted on this a number of different times. They were all using short slot reeds and even among highly experienced pros, getting low end bends on harps lower than the key of C was difficult even for them. A lot other pro players I know thought they sounded too much like a Lee Oskar.
The reason for the process and design that was given was about European health laws allegedly saying that no instrument could be small enough to fit inside a baby's mouth. They did have a tighter slot tolerance than the HM at the time (and they let those tolerances get way too wide).
When they retooled in 1995, they had redesigned the reed profile as well as the rivet itself, they also added several other models using the new profile plus, in the case of the MS Martin, Cross Harp, Tiffany, and Meisterklasse, also a thicker reed plate. It's playability definitely improved quite a bit but a lot of the damage had been done with the first series that were introduced.
Htownfess is correct on the torsional problems for OB's, which were the same with Lee Oskar's in that respect, plus the reeds are set much further away from the player than any other model and a tighter slot tolerance was a necessity to make them playable.
The MS MB's, which I and many other pros hated them so much that they were never issued in the US, and only in Europe, tho now long discontinued.
I still don't like them in their stock form, but the one MS set up I don't mind uses a combination of BR cover plates, Cross Harp reedplates, and fully sealed maple comb made by Mark Lavoie.
One of the MS series' problems are in the cover plate screws, and the correct screwdriver on all MS harps is a Pozidriv #1, which can be hard to find in the US, but the big problem with those cover plate screws is the real worry isn't stripping the threads so much, but the slot that the screwdriver goes because it shreds so easily even with the correct screwdriver being used.
BTW, The cover plates of a Big River is the same as the MS Marine Band were, but with a different name engraving on the top cover plate and if you put those covers on the MS Blues Harp, that's what the MS Marine Band actually was.
The wood used on the MS series, doussie, was used because they didn't want to be bothered sealing the comb, which many pros had asked Hohner to do for decades, and tho it was more resistant to swelling (but is NOT moisture proof by a long shot) because it was a harder wood, but it was also more brittle than pearwood, peachwood, or maple.
Until Hering came out with the 1923 Vintage Harp in 2003 with a partially sealed comb (just sealed along the outer edges) and had a pretty good amount of success with it enough to put a a good dent in MB sales, it forced Hohner by 2005 to come out with the MB Deluxe, which also has a partially sealed comb.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Last Edited by on Aug 16, 2010 12:52 PM
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jim
309 posts
Aug 15, 2010
12:52 PM
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"Until Hering came out with the 1923 Vintage Harp in 2003"
LOL That's really "vintage" :D
Great post, Bob!
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www.truechromatic.com
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barbequebob
1134 posts
Aug 15, 2010
1:09 PM
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Jim, that was the name of the model and it is one of the few stock harps available tuned to 7LJI.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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jim
310 posts
Aug 15, 2010
1:26 PM
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Yeah I know - I just didn't realize it was so new. I have always perceived it as a model they make since 1923...
but hey) 1847 is also not made since 1847)
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www.truechromatic.com
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bluesharper
98 posts
Aug 15, 2010
2:59 PM
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@ nacron
Incase you still cant remember what Br is it mean Big River
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Diggsblues
452 posts
Aug 15, 2010
4:10 PM
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I had some gold body ones I liked until I had to change the plate. I have a blues harp that I think is a much
better harp than a marine band. It has good volume and
I think it would be pretty good harp with some tweeking. The Golden Melody is still my harp of choice.
I have some sp 20's some play great and other sp 20's
just have a weird action to me.
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How you doin'
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Kyzer Sosa
740 posts
Aug 16, 2010
12:06 PM
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simple, its Ms. If it were Mr., it'd gone a lot farther. with men at least...
I got one one time and dude says "Misses?, what choo git a ladies harmoniker fer?" To which I replied "No sir, it's a..." he interrupts me turns to the crowd and says "This feller got himself a womens harmoniker, djew bleeve that?"
since then well, i kinda just shy'd away from em....
also, it could really be that they dont sell them at the Sam Ash I used to go to to buy harps.
you decide.
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Kyzer's Travels
Kyzer's Artwork
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