jonlaing
22 posts
Jul 25, 2010
11:04 PM
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I believe that's what Lee Sankey called it. I think Buddha put up a video about it as well. I've tried a few different kinds of vibrato and this one feels like the one for me. I also like the way it sounds from listening to proficient players do it.
My question for those who implement this particular form of vibrato, what is the procedure for achieving the vibrator on the blow 1-6, and draw 7-10? I understand that you can bend those notes a partial semitone, but I can't seem to make it happen dramatically enough to achieve what sounds like a vibrato.
I kind of achieve my attempt at the vibrato by essentially saying "yo-yo-yo". It works well on the draw, but not so much on the blow.
Any advice?
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5F6H
257 posts
Jul 26, 2010
1:36 AM
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I wouldn't think about any of the vibrato techniques as "the one", each has their place. Obviously, this particular technique can only be used on notes where you can vary the pitch sufficiently.
If you overuse the pitch vibrato (like any technique) it'll get stale quick.
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Buddha
2300 posts
Jul 26, 2010
10:16 PM
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if you want your own sound pick ONE style and stick with it.
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"All is bliss"
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jonlaing
26 posts
Jul 26, 2010
10:51 PM
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@Buddha: You use the pitch vibrato, right? Am I on the right track with that? It sounds good on the draws... like the draw six sounds great. But all of the blows sound less than impressive... in fact I really don't get much at all. It sounds like there's no vibrato at all. Any advice?
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Buddha
2301 posts
Jul 26, 2010
10:58 PM
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I don't know. I haven't heard you.
lessons are $95/session or free with the purchase of a harp.
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"All is bliss"
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jonlaing
27 posts
Jul 26, 2010
11:12 PM
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I appreciate the offer, but I've kind of already stretched my "hobby" budget for a while. Maybe after graduation I can afford lessons. I guess for now I'll just keep at it and hope for the best. Thanks.
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5F6H
258 posts
Jul 27, 2010
1:26 AM
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@ Buddha "if you want your own sound pick ONE style and stick with it." Interesting, perhaps Buddha you'll furnish us with a clip of a pitch vibrato applied to a 1 & 4 blow octave...
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Sandy88
67 posts
Jul 27, 2010
4:56 AM
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95 per lesson? That must be for 2 hours I assume?
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WORLD CLASS HARMONICA PLAYER
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Baker
75 posts
Jul 27, 2010
5:06 AM
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@jonlaing I'm guessing that this technique will not work in blow 1-6 and draw 7-10. What you are doing is producing a series of small bends which is actually true vibrato (as opposed to tremolo).
However, seeing as you can't blow bend 1-6 or draw bend 7-10 I am guessing this technique will not work.
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Buddha
2302 posts
Jul 27, 2010
5:46 AM
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When you produce one with vibrato on 5OB and then bend it to semi-tone above that with vibrato then I'm post me doing an octave.
I have nothing to prove to anybody when it comes to vibrato. Most other people do...so let's hear it.
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"All is bliss"
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5F6H
260 posts
Jul 27, 2010
6:05 AM
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Buddha, my point is the same as Baker's - pitch vibrato is great on holes where the bends are available, but OP is asking how you apply that to holes where the bends are not available, the answer is you can't...if you want vibrato on those holes then you need to use a different technique. Telling JonLaing to use just 1 technique seems odd...as most players seem to have a couple of vibrato/tremolo techniques, depending on the application.
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Buddha
2303 posts
Jul 27, 2010
6:35 AM
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ALL holes can be bent a little bit. If you can't do it then your technique isn't strong enough, I don't know what else to say about it.
I made a vibrato vid a couple of years ago where I went through each note and applied vibrato.
Keep at it.
ONE technique will give you an identifiable sound. MOST players are terrible players so follow their lead if you choose but the best ones pretty much stick to one.
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"All is bliss"
Last Edited by on Jul 27, 2010 6:49 AM
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Diggsblues
418 posts
Jul 27, 2010
6:47 AM
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If you take a lesson with somebody from the Philly Orchestra you could pay 100 an hour or more.
Lessons I take for composition, Orchestration and
arranging cost 100 an hour. I don't pay cause I work
at a school and it's a benefit. Free classes are part of the deal. It's a one on one class sweet.
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How you doin'
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apskarp
284 posts
Jul 27, 2010
7:10 AM
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I'm not very experienced player but I can still achieve pitch vibrato with all the notes on my harp. (I even tried the 5OB vibrato + semitone higher on A-harp that has just gapping made, no other customizations - seemed to work ok.) I used a bit of tongue and a bit of jaw.
The point of vibrato is to create effects and feeling, I believe. It's not supposed to be an ornament and thus micro-tonal bending possibilities are enough to make it.
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Youtube
Hoodoo Sauna
Blog
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Sandy88
68 posts
Jul 27, 2010
7:32 AM
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"If you take a lesson with somebody from the Philly Orchestra you could pay 100 an hour or more."
Exactly, which is why I'm pretty sure you get 2 hours for 95 from Chris
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WORLD CLASS HARMONICA PLAYER
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Buddha
2304 posts
Jul 27, 2010
8:00 AM
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next time I come to Jersey, maybe you can teach me how to play messin with the kid.
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"All is bliss"
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apskarp
285 posts
Jul 27, 2010
8:00 AM
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@Sandy: If some unknown player from Philly Orchestra is taking 100 bucks from lessons, Chris should take 200 bucks by hour. But I'm glad he doesn't. :)
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Youtube
Hoodoo Sauna
Blog
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5F6H
261 posts
Jul 27, 2010
9:06 AM
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@ Buddha "ONE technique will give you an identifiable sound. MOST players are terrible players so follow their lead if you choose but the best ones pretty much stick to one." It was examples by some of the best players that I was drawing from.
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Buddha
2305 posts
Jul 27, 2010
9:27 AM
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name them. I'm probably drawing from the same pool but we hear different things.
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"All is bliss"
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Buddha
2306 posts
Jul 27, 2010
9:41 AM
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they are public people.
perhaps you don't have a good ear? I dunno. :=)
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"All is bliss"
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kudzurunner
1704 posts
Jul 27, 2010
10:25 AM
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My thoughts about vibrato changed after hearing what Chris and several others, including Jason and Mitch Kashmar were doing on the 7-10 blow notes. I guess that is what people mean by "pitch vibrato." I've got a good, solid vibrato on 1-6 draw, and the draw octaves, and I THOUGHT I had a decent vibrato on the upper blow holes, but it's become apparent to me that Chris's sort of move-the-jaw vibrato on, say, the 9 blow, is superior to what I was doing. So I'm working on that, and slowly working it in.
The only potential drawback to pitch vibrato on the upper holes, as I see it, is that it's such a distinctive sound, especially on lip-pursed high notes, that it can de-individuate you. Chris's videos of several years back clearly helped spread the gospel! Jay has caught the pitch-vibrato virus. Everybody is now sounding like Son of Howard up there. I like it--the sound IS great--but I'm leery of it at the same time.
Kashmar has his own sound because, as far as I can tell, he's TBing those single high notes before he vibrato-izes them.
Again, I'll stress one of my core values: individuation is key. Those whose ambition is to sound just like some currently fashionable player are setting their sights too low. I'm as doctrinaire as the next guy and love to say, "This is how you should do it," but if the world began to fill with people who sounded like sort-of-copies of me, I'd be creeped out. I'd much rather have somebody come up and say, "I learned a whole lot from your videos, and this is what I'm doing with it," and play me something I've never heard before that maybe has a few recognizable wisps of my sound.
It takes a long time to individuate. All the connectivity that is enabled by the internet is amazingly good at spreading knowledge, but it's not particularly good at encouraging people to go off by themselves, play hundreds of anonymous gigs with several dozen different ensembles, and create something genuinely new. Ripeness isn't all, but it does count for something.
I certainly don't envy Nic Clark, for example, becoming Hohner's youngest endorser at the age of 14. That's a surprisingly heavy burden. One of the few kid-blues performers who handled it really well, IMHOP, was Monster Mike Welch. I saw him play a blues festival in Portsmouth, NH when he was 14, in 1995, and he was incredibly good. (That was the festival at which Jason cornered me and I took him under a bridge and showed him how to improve his tone.) Here's the album that made Monster Mike a star at 16. With luck, Nic will manage to do something of the same thing:
http://www.amazon.com/These-Blues-Mine-Monster-Welch/dp/B000003A0U/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1280251927&sr=8-5
Last Edited by on Jul 27, 2010 10:35 AM
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Kingley
1344 posts
Jul 27, 2010
10:32 AM
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Yeah Mitch Kashmar has a very sweet sounding vibrato. You're right Adam, he is tongue blocking those high notes. Like Dennis Gruenling, Kashamr is apparently one of the few players to play 100% tongue blocked all of the time.
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Paul "Kingley" Routledge
My YouTube Page
Last Edited by on Jul 27, 2010 10:33 AM
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Diggsblues
421 posts
Jul 27, 2010
10:51 AM
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Sandy88
If Chris charges 500 bucks for 10 minutes that's his
business. Who are you man? Put up some of your music
so I know where your coming from.
World Class _________
Apskharp The Title member of The Philadelphia Orchestra
makes you known. These guys are the cream of world
class players. Just trying to clarify what this means.
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How you doin'
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groyster1
265 posts
Jul 27, 2010
10:59 AM
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@Sandy 88
people will charge what the traffic will bear-if chris gets what he asks more power to him-hes making a living and obviously there are those who think his teaching skills are worth it
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groyster1
266 posts
Jul 27, 2010
11:03 AM
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back to vibrato-I am taking adams advice and counting 7 beats on the inward ca,ca,ca breath and letting it out on the 8th breath-hopefully that is strengthening the epiglottis whose job is to open on inspiration and close on exhalation to prevent aspiration into the lungs-by inward coughing its my impression that I am trying to close the epiglottis which is going against the grain-hopefully over time I will develop throat vibrato
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5F6H
264 posts
Jul 28, 2010
1:18 AM
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Buddha "perhaps you don't have a good ear? I dunno. :=)"
That's right, you don't know. So I'll expect you to give me the benefit of the doubt & assume my judgement is sound...just like I do for you.
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hvyj
498 posts
Jul 28, 2010
12:55 PM
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To be fair to Buddha, note that he says he charges $95 "a session." I don't believe he has a stop watch going during the session, and he has quite a bit he can convey to an interested learner. I think a student would get pretty good value from a session with Chris.
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