Andrew
1083 posts
Jul 12, 2010
8:13 AM
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I've got no problems with my low D bending the 2-draw down a full tone, but my SBS in C is a bitch. The gapping is about the same on both. I can't remember what I was like when the low D was new. I'll just have to keep practising, but I don't want to rupture my larynx (like a skunk rolling down a hill), and one's throat size may be a limiting factor.
How are you guys on bending the 2 draw on the low harps?
Does anyone remember how much practice it took?
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Andrew,
gentleman of leisure,
noodler extraordinaire.
Last Edited by on Jul 12, 2010 8:18 AM
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toddlgreene
1528 posts
Jul 12, 2010
8:27 AM
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I don't own a low-keyed F yet, but I often play my G and Ab harps-it definitely requires an embouchere adjustment. It's really noticeable when i'm playing a song with an upper-register harp like a hi-F, then I jump on a low one. Controlling those 2nd and 3rd bends at proper intonation feels a bit like walking a tightrope!
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Crescent City Harmonica Club
Todd L Greene, Co-Founder
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barbequebob
1018 posts
Jul 12, 2010
8:58 AM
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For the lower keys, embouchure adjustment along with making subtle adjustments to the inside shape of your mouth is necessary and the average player RARELY ever does either of these things, plus you have to be physically RELAXED 100% of the time or you're always gonna have problems with the low keys.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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The7thDave
143 posts
Jul 12, 2010
9:00 AM
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Andrew: How are you doing with the 1-hole draw bend on your low D? I can get the 2-hole draw full-step bend, too; but getting the 1-hole draw to bend down a complete half-step is like trying to lick my own elbow.
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--Dave
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* BTMFH *
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Andrew
1084 posts
Jul 12, 2010
10:00 AM
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The 7thDave, I could be better on the 1 draw on a low D - the semitone is not quite there and it's pretty weak. Interestingly, the low D's 1 draw is lower than the low C's 2 draw. I specifically asked about the 2 draw bend because I think it's more important musically than the 1 draw bend.
After trying the low D 1 draw bend a few times, of course the low C 2 draw bend is easier, so it is all about relaxation and practice.
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Andrew,
gentleman of leisure,
noodler extraordinaire.
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barbequebob
1021 posts
Jul 12, 2010
11:20 AM
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Relaxation and NOT trying to force the issue, which is what the average player tends to do all the time.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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DeakHarp
94 posts
Jul 12, 2010
11:28 AM
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OTB lo harps are verry airy to me ... when i get a new one i customise it ....Well all mine a custom's ... but it helps ... Deak Harp's play like butter ...in MHO .. just ask Bill Branch ...
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Andrew
1085 posts
Jul 12, 2010
11:47 AM
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I have gapped but not embossed mine.
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Andrew,
gentleman of leisure,
noodler extraordinaire.
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Andrew
1086 posts
Jul 12, 2010
12:54 PM
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Yes, my G harp is the best one I have at the moment. Embossing it worked miracles. Problem is I have to emboss all my other harps now, because they are so crappy in comparison, lol!
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Andrew,
gentleman of leisure,
noodler extraordinaire.
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JohnnieHarp
9 posts
Jul 12, 2010
1:01 PM
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Tell me about it! I have a bunch of nearly new Hohners from the early 80s that are really in need of it compared to today's Sp20, Pro Harps, et al ...
That being said, all the embossing doesn't need to be done at once. Just a bit in a few key spots on a few key harps and then going over them again as time permits.
At home one can pitch shift backing tracks / tunes to fit one's best prepped harps. Different story if at a a jam or gig though ...
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Joch230
237 posts
Jul 12, 2010
1:06 PM
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What I hate is playing on a lower keyed harp, like a G for a few songs and then the next song calls for the high F.... takes me a bit to adjust....if you suck anywhere near as hard...you flatten out all the reeds!
-John
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arzajac
284 posts
Jul 12, 2010
1:15 PM
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I've been playing with an old Marine Band 364 in C (low C).
I can bend the 1 and 2 draw after having had it for a few months. It doesn't require any "work" at all. It's just completely different than a regular pitched harp. Barbequebob is absolutely right - it's about changing your mouth shape and RELAXING!
I tried and tried to work hard at bending the thing when I fist got it, but when I started to use the back of my throat, everything just fell into place. I still need to practice my intonation, but hitting the bends is not an effort at all.
I recently got low-F reedplates for my Piece-o-crap Lee Oskar and found it to be quite pleasant. I could hit those bends no problem. I have yet to get a low-D, but there is a huge difference in technique between bending the low holes on a low-F and a low-C.
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hvyj
446 posts
Jul 12, 2010
5:12 PM
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If you can't get the bend by opening the throat, INCREASE the size of the oral resonance chamber made by your mouth (as recommended by BBQ BOB) and the note will drop.
I HATE low tuned (tenor) harps. But if you want to play them, a softer attack is required, you've got to open the throat to bend and if that doesn't work by itself, you'll be surprised at how well just increasing the resonance chamber formed by your mouth works if you do it right.
All of this is, IMHO, too much trouble to go through to play a harp that has no "cut" no matter how well you play it.
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mlefree
2 posts
Jul 12, 2010
6:26 PM
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Bending those low harps is a challenge, fer sure. As usual BBQ Bob has it right and hvyj contributed some good practical advice as well. I love those low-keyed harps though, especially my low-C SBS. What a great "voice" that baby has if I just breathe through it!
I find the 1D on a low-D represents the lower limit of my bending ability. I can't quite get a full semi-tone out of that one. The 2D on the low-C is more doable for me, but I've had to learn special techniques that extend my usual bending methods to coax a 2-semitone bend out of that'n.
For me the secret lies deeper than the sage advice to "open your mouth, drop your chin and open the back of the throat by 'yawning'" would indicate. The whole idea is to create the biggest resonant chamber your general body size and the muscular tone and control of your throat will permit. That is a good starting point for these low babies. I have to "yawn" really hard to get those low bends.
Beyond that sort of usual advice, what I've found is that the position my body is in and my posture at the moment can influence how big I can make my airways and hence how low I can bend. I can bend a given reed on these low harps lower if I am standing or seated very straight in a chair with my shoulders held slightly back (sort of arching my back a little) and if I tilt my head back slightly. I had to learn to use these different aspects of control over the deepness of a bend just like the usual formula that is successful at bending higher tuned reeds.
I betchya Dave Payne (Elk River Harmonicas) and maybe others have seen a bull elk "bugle:"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s78s-FCSUXs&feature=related
That is the precise sort of "contortion" I go through to bend those low ones. Really. Try it! 8^)
One quick personal note. I'm convinced that over the years my quest for tone and to be able to bend deeply have actually lowered my voice several notches! That's OK 'cuz I sorta like the sound of a husky-voiced woman. I've even adopted (co-opted?) Mavis Staple's singing style, which is cool. I just don't wanna end up sounding like Howard Levy. ;^)
Michelle
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arzajac
285 posts
Jul 12, 2010
6:29 PM
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hvyj: Regarding the sound of low harps, I disagree that they are too much trouble. Well, disagree is the wrong word - it's a matter of preference. I like the sound and it's okay to like it or not like it.
But it's a matter of using the right tool for the right job. I recall from another thread that you mentioned you play/prefer Equal Temperament tuned harps. You also play amped and are not a fan of the hand effects. Well, in that context, you are correct that a low harp doesn't cut though.
But for someone who likes to play acoustically, who likes JI tuning, the low harps offer overtones that can only be appreciated in a quieter or less-filled environment.
I just finished tweaking the tuning of the low-F that I mentioned (it takes me a few days to get it right) and I can say that hitting the chords and octaves just stops me in my tracks.
To me, the ultimate harp sound is a JI-tuned low harp. But that's also the music I prefer. Should you play Howard Levy-type jazzy noodling on a harp like that? Probably not. That stuff will sound better on a higher-pitched ET-tuned harp.
So to each their own. But if that turns you on, then it's well worth the effort.
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hvyj
447 posts
Jul 12, 2010
9:36 PM
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@arzajac: You're right. I always play electric and with a cupped mic. Unless I'm just sitting around jamming informally, I never play acoustic and never play "in air" so i don't use hand effects when i perform. I always play ET harps and rarely play chords. So, yeah, tenor harps are not particularly well suited to my style of playing.
On the other hand, I don't particularly enjoy having to nearly collapse a lung in order to bend, either. I have no doubt that tenor harps are well suited to certain applications--just not any of mine.
Last Edited by on Jul 12, 2010 9:38 PM
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boris_plotnikov
155 posts
Jul 12, 2010
10:20 PM
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I get same problems around 5 years ago, when I bought 364 Marine Band in C. I was confused and I go and buy Sp20 in LF, LE and LD. I practice 2 draw bend wholestep with G harp, then LF, then LE, then LE, then LD, then trying 364. For half an hour I started to hit bend properly. Just opening your jaw and put tongue closer to the throat.
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DeakHarp
95 posts
Jul 12, 2010
10:38 PM
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I forgot to mention..I only play low harps Long Slot A,Ab,Bb,G, Lo E ,LoF,LoD 364 ,LoC 364,14 hole G 364 ,And a C harp on a few tunes 2 nd and 3 rd pos .. i rarely use a D harp unless im doing a slim harpo tune ,,, The thing i notice is the lower harps cut great in my amp 59 RI with a Holy Grail plus reverb ... when i use D , E ,Or C i can tell the diffrence in Cutting power ...the lower harps cut better .....As far as Blowing easy in the lo tuned harps ... I play strong mabey blowing too hard ... but that is my style ...Due to my agrasive playing i have to retune harps more often than other players ...I set up my harps for agresive playing bigger gap ...but not too lose that i cant overblow the 6 ...As far as collapsing a lung to bend the 2 hole i have no problem ... but my harps are Customs all made by me ...Anyone that wants me to set up there lo harps ... e mail me ... deakharp@hughes.net
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