Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! > So the Carbon Copy delay...
So the Carbon Copy delay...
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HarpNinja
537 posts
Jul 06, 2010
8:18 PM
Was it ever decided if it adds gain and volume to your signal with harp? Is there a way to use it so it doesn't mess with your core tone?
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Mike
Kingley
1313 posts
Jul 06, 2010
10:09 PM
Yes it will.

Here is the cold hard brutal truth. Everything you put between your mic and amp will "mess with your core tone". All pedals do it and all volume controls do it. They just have different levels of effect to the "core tone". Some will make a drastic change and others an almost indiscernible change to your tone, that although almost unnoticeable is still there.

Anybody who tells you otherwise is lying to you.

The MXR Carbon Copy is a pretty good delay pedal. I use one sometimes. It does colour the tone very slightly, but in my experience not in a bad way. I haven't noticed an overly significant difference in volume when using it.
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Paul "Kingley" Routledge
My YouTube Page

Last Edited by on Jul 06, 2010 10:12 PM
boris_plotnikov
135 posts
Jul 07, 2010
12:06 AM
Mine Carbon Copy sounds perfect, but when alone it reduces volume of bypassed signal compared to mic straight to amp. When I put bypassed boss pedal before CC it sounds the same bypassed or no.

CC sounds perfect for me and my style (I even sold great LoneWolf HarpDelay). The only thing I'm afraid of is reliability, but mine works great for 2 month of use
http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Effects/product/MXR/m-169+Carbon+Copy+Analog+Delay/10/1
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hvyj
428 posts
Jul 07, 2010
4:49 AM
Reliability is fine. I've used mine for almost a year. I leave it on all the time. It darkens the tone and compresses the highs a little which I happen to like.

It's supposed to be true bypass, but i don't think it is. But since I leave it on all the time, that doesn't make any difference. And, like Boris says, if you have a non-true bypass pedal in front of it (like a MicroPog) it evens out the volume of the dry signal and keeps it in balance with the wet signal. I like my CC a lot.
HarpNinja
538 posts
Jul 07, 2010
5:13 AM
Kingley, while I realize what you say is correct, this effect seemed to be exaggerated with the CC.

Boris and hvyj, I would pretty much just run an Ultimate 57 into a Samson Wireless into the Kinder AFB into the CC. Do you think it would have the exaggerated bump in gain/volume? It would always stay on.

Don't know if I am totally sold as it is "dark".
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Mike
hvyj
429 posts
Jul 07, 2010
5:30 AM
If you leave it on all the time, set your tone and volume controls accordingly and you'll be fine. It's not as much a gain bump when it's on as it's a gain reduction when it's off, UNLESS you have a non TB pedal in front of it in the chain. But if you just leave it on all the time, there's no problem no matter what's in front of it.

I have mine on a pedalboard with a RetroSonic Phaser (true bypass), a MicroPog (NOT TB) and a RotoSim (TB) in front of it in that order, and in that configuration, the dry and wet signal have even gain/volume. I use a 545 Ultimate.
boris_plotnikov
136 posts
Jul 07, 2010
5:35 AM
If your CC is always on you will not have any problems. I think slapback delay for harmonica have to be dark to avoid messing with next notes, lonewolf harpdelay is much darker than CC.
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HarpNinja
539 posts
Jul 07, 2010
6:07 AM
Thanks for the clarification. I *might* go try one if I run out of room on my board, which I am reconfiguring. I am trying to squeeze everything on a PT Mini. In theory, I should have room for the BBE still, but if it is too big, then I might trade/sell for the CC.


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Mike
Kingley
1314 posts
Jul 07, 2010
9:17 AM
"Kingley, while I realize what you say is correct, this effect seemed to be exaggerated with the CC"

This is not my experience with this pedal. It may give a very slight volume boost but not anything problematic. I can't say that I have noticed any real gain added by it. I certainly wouldn't consider it a dark delay. It is no where near as dark as the Boss DM-2. If anything my experience is it brightens my tone slightly. It's a nice effect pedal to have but I wouldn't want it on all the time.
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Paul "Kingley" Routledge
My YouTube Page
HarpNinja
541 posts
Jul 07, 2010
9:52 AM
Thanks for the added info. I think DM-2 delay, while sounding great, is really hard to hear live. I think I'll have to try out a CC soon. I am not sure there is one within an hour of my house, but eventually I'll try it out.
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Mike
barbequebob
1005 posts
Jul 07, 2010
10:41 AM
One other thing you may want to think about is that if you use a wireless unit, that will also color the sound, sometimes very subtle, sometimes very drastically, and some favor highs, some lows, etc., and room acoustics can also affect it, also playing outdoors on a windy day, so that's another thing to take into account.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
boris_plotnikov
138 posts
Jul 07, 2010
11:06 AM
Jason Ricci has best amplified harmonica tone ever for my taste and he use wireless unit, 4 pedals always engaged (delay, AFB+, compressor, sonic stomp) and a bunch of non-true bypassed pedals (Boss Harmonist, MicroPOG) and he sounds great.

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hvyj
430 posts
Jul 07, 2010
11:29 AM
If you are comparing the CC to the BBE Two Timer there will be a BIG difference. I tried a BBE Two Timer, but I sent it back because I found it to be unacceptably BRIGHT sounding. Tonally, it's very, very different from the CC, which is darker sounding.

A more transparent delay is the Wampler Analog Echo (which is not actually analog and is not actually an echo). It's a boutique pedal available through the Wampler pedals website. Nice unit, harp friendly, 5 year warranty and NOT DARK SOUNDING. I like the darker sounding CC myself, but the Wampler is really nice and is hard wired true bypass.
boris_plotnikov
139 posts
Jul 07, 2010
11:47 AM
I've listened to DM2 samples, BBE Two Timer samples, CC samples, Lonewolf samples. And first I bought great LoneWolf, but I miss some high end in dry part of tone, I've decide to buy CC instead of harpdelay. I think harpdelay v2 will fit my tone too, hope I'll try it later too.

Here sample of my tone with CC. Seydel 1847 G -> SM57 -> Rocktron Hush (as antifeedback) -> Carbon Copy -> LW Harpattack (russian tube) -> BBE Sonic Stomp -> Big Riviera 1x12 Amp, recorded live.

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Last Edited by on Jul 07, 2010 11:55 AM
bluemoose
236 posts
Jul 07, 2010
12:19 PM
OT: Hummmm...I'm thinking it might be time to re-think this avatar picture thing after watching Boris pop up all through this thread. :)
wolfkristiansen
15 posts
Jul 07, 2010
2:29 PM
HarpNinja asked about the MXR Carbon Copy Delay. "Was it ever decided if it adds gain and volume to your signal with harp? Is there a way to use it so it doesn't mess with your core tone?". Short answer at the end of this message; bear with me while I get there, or jump to the end if you don't want to hear the ramble.

Most of my harp playing life, I used reverb only.

I used the inboard unit that came with my first amp, a '68 Super Reverb. I used an outboard unit since 1976, when I bouught my still working, still used '62 Fender Concert. As many of you tube freaks know, it has no reverb. The outboard unit I got in the '70s was a "Univox Pro-Verb". I still use it. My guitar-playing friends descripe its sound as cheezy, but I like it. It was cheap to buy, but it ain't cheezy.

Pictures here:

http://www.univox.org/pics/effects/proverb.jpg
http://www.univox.org/pics/effects/proverb2.jpg

I set it at about 3 out of 10, not too much reverb, except when I do a slow, atmospheric blues like Junior Walker's "Cleo's Mood", or "Cleo's Back"-- I set it at 5 or 6.

Adam Gussow started his YouTube lessons three and a half years ago. Like half the computer-literate harmonica players in the English speaking world, I watched them avidly. Great explanations and demonstrations; I'll save that for another thread.

Quite apart from that, I liked how Adam sounded. In one of those early lessons, he said he used delay as part of his sound. I think it was his very first lesson. That changed my long standing resolve to avoid delay pedals. To make a long story short, I bought one when I was next in the big city, Vancouver B.C. I found one in the Tom Lee Music store. I was in the mood to buy, so I bought what was in the display case that day-- a MXR Carbon Copy. Total impulse purchase, no homework before I bought.

I got lucky. I love it, and have used it ever since, in moderation, along with a touch of reverb. They can and do co-exist.

Here's what I hear: The MXR Carbon Delay darkens your tone a very tiny bit. For me, like others, it's a harp friendly change. It's hardly noticeable. The MXR Carbon Copy does add a slight amount of gain/volume to the harp when it's running. Not sure if you meant gain and volume to be two different qualities in your question, HarpNinja, but, put simply, the harp is louder with it on than off. If I click the "off" button, it sounds like my microphone is plugged directly into the amp, however, there's a slight volume drop.

I can see how the volume drop could be a problem for some. For me, as for some of the people who posted here, it's not a problem because the delay unit is always on.

I'd have preferred no volume change, but, given my style of play, I can live with it. It's a good analog delay pedal.

cheers,

wolf kristiansen
boris_plotnikov
140 posts
Jul 07, 2010
10:04 PM
For my taste reverb is erfect for clean harp, but for amplified harp I'd prefer delay before amp or overdrive pedal to make sound fatter.
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HarpNinja
542 posts
Jul 08, 2010
5:13 AM
I am digging the BBE. It doesn't sound too bright to my ear, BUT it is a wide pedal! I might have to do some thinking to get everything on my pedal board now...which is just a Pedal Train-Mini. I have a Line 6 M9 coming today that will fit with my Kinder and Samson Wireless. The BBE looks to be about an inch to wide for the board...but wiring for power might make any delay tough to squeeze on there. Maybe.
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Mike
hvyj
433 posts
Jul 08, 2010
5:47 AM
If all pedals are 9v, you can use a One Spot with a multiplug harness to power them which takes up no space on the board. Since the Kinder AFB is battery powered and will stay on (and drain its batteries) if you leave it on the board plugged in, the solution may be to take the Kinder off the board.

Whether or not you think the BBE sounds too bright, the CC will be noticeably darker sounding.
HarpNinja
543 posts
Jul 08, 2010
6:46 AM
I have a One Spot...sadly, the wireless is 12v and the Line 6 is evidently very noisey without its own dedicated power supply.
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Mike
hvyj
434 posts
Jul 09, 2010
5:01 AM
Sounds like you may be in the market for a Pedaltrain Jr. and a Voodoo Labs power supply.

Anyway, FWIW, I found an interesting setting on the CC. If you set the left and right knobs each at 9 o'clock and the middle (upper) knob at 11 o'clock, you get a reverb-like effect instead of a delay which has somewhat of a more open sounding tone and provides a little more "cut."
Kingley
1318 posts
Jul 09, 2010
11:06 AM
The only bad thing I will say about the MXR Carbon Copy is that the LED's are stupidly bright. They are so bright it can make it hard to see what your settings are at a glance.

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Paul "Kingley" Routledge
My YouTube Page
boris_plotnikov
144 posts
Jul 09, 2010
1:14 PM
It's perfect LED. When it's sunny I hate I can't see RED leds on my boss, ibanez and LoneWolf pedals. While blue leds on CC, BBE SS and Rocktron hush are clearly visible.
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