joshnat
48 posts
Jun 10, 2010
9:10 AM
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Hi, I'm looking for new/used amp for a few hundred bucks(I don't have $1000 to spend), and I don't want to always mic it on stage. I know, this sounds like a lot to ask, but it's really a PITA to mic an amp with my band's setup, and I like having control over my volume without having to go to the board. I really would prefer a 6L6 amp, but so many people rave about the Pro Jr. that I wanted to ask if it's loud enough to gig at stage volume? Of course, it depends on the band and the venue, but we play in fairly small clubs (with the occasional outdoor gig) and at reasonable volumes. Of course, volume creeps up over the course of the gig, as usual. Our GTR player uses a SF Deluxe Reverb, which I think is 22 watts. Other than that, we're just bass, drums and vocals. We only use the PA for the vocals. Thanks!
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ol'bosey
19 posts
Jun 10, 2010
9:27 AM
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They work in a pinch, keeping in mind You'll want to swap out the tubes. The next step(if You want to go there) is swapping out the speaker. I would'nt buy one new,but if You can get one on the cheap they are decent little amps. Great amps for guitar (if You like it dirty). I just like them because they dont kill My back to lug around,and seem to have good volume to size ratio.
Take a 12ay or 12au to a store and see if they will let You swap that out with the 12ax7...try it out in a back room,and see what You think.
The Blues Jr. is a no-no for harp (so I've heard).
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joshnat
49 posts
Jun 10, 2010
9:41 AM
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Thanks for the the comment. Working in a pinch may not be a solution for me, as I would hope it to be my primary gigging amp.
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HarpNinja
500 posts
Jun 10, 2010
9:43 AM
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I am estimating here....
Used PJr = $250
New Tubes = $30
New Speaker (which is a must) = $40-$100+
Possible pedal to fight feedback in order to get it loud enough to gig - cuz they can get loud - $50-350
If you're willing to spend $400-500 for an amp that can go unmiked, is this the best solution? I don't know, I just want you to make a good decision.
I had a Pro Jr with a Weber 10F125. It was plenty loud for most gigs when used with a Kinder AFB and not tubbing way down, which can kill volume. I used a sm57 with it.
Personally, I would look for something with 6v6 or 6l6 tubes and more speaker area for the same cost. Don't have any good ideas off the top of my head though.
I also wonder if the new Fender Super Champ would be a better move - they are similar in price, use 6v6 tubes have on board effects and sound ok with the stock speaker. Now with a speaker upgrade, you'd have a really giggable amp with the 6v6 sounds and reverb/delay built in. Do they maybe also have a line out or something too?
That'd maybe be worth trying out side by side with a Pro Jr at the music store.
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Joe_L
357 posts
Jun 10, 2010
9:57 AM
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I've owned one. The short answer is, "It depends on how loud your band is."
I had a real love/hate relationship with that amp. I liked the tone. The size was great. Sometimes, the volume was good. Sometimes, it wasn't good enough. There are a lot of guitar players that own those amps. Borrow one and try it.
If you decide to buy one, swap the 12AX7 with a 12AY7 and you'll get a bit more sweep on the volume control before it starts feeding back. I didn't dig the changes to the tone when using a 12AU7.
If you must buy one, get a used one. For a couple hundred bucks, you might be able to find a used reissue Bassman. That might be a better choice.
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LittleJoeSamson
303 posts
Jun 10, 2010
9:58 AM
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A buddy of mine put milspec 5814 & 6829 in V1 & V2 respectively and it sounds good with his green bullet.
Plenty loud and crunchy.
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Joe_L
358 posts
Jun 10, 2010
9:59 AM
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While I swapped the speaker in my Pro Junior, I didn't really feel it was necessary. I have a number of recordings with that amp from clubs. Honestly, I couldn't tell you which recording had the amp with which speaker.
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Ev630
590 posts
Jun 10, 2010
10:01 AM
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Agree with Joe. Solid amp for a small venue and a sympathetic band.
I used one for two years at small gigs and it was fine, propped on a drum case or milk crate. Try a bunch of mics with one, and as Joe noted pop out the first tube for a better sweep - though with the right mic it sounds fine stock. It'll just go from 0 to loud in a bee's dick.
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Nastyolddog
882 posts
Jun 10, 2010
10:01 AM
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Yo put the call out for a Harp Gear Double trouble
i have a fender Blues Junior heavly modded,
and a Harp Gear H2,
my next amp will be a Double Trouble hang back Bro save ya doe put the call out for a real Harp amp:)
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Ev630
591 posts
Jun 10, 2010
10:05 AM
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Actually, Nasty's right. Add 200 bucks then post a message on harp-l saying you want a DT but only want to pay 650 or 700. You'll be sure to get someone who wants to move the amp. It may take a while and a few posts, but I'm sure you'll score.
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Joe_L
359 posts
Jun 10, 2010
10:42 AM
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I own a Double Trouble. It's a fantastic amp. The tone is way better than a Pro Jr and it's a LOT louder.
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joshnat
50 posts
Jun 10, 2010
10:53 AM
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Double Trouble is my dream amp. It sounds about perfect for my needs. I'll try your suggestion, Ev630.
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Scrapboss
88 posts
Jun 10, 2010
10:59 AM
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WWW.VINTAGE47AMPS.COM
I had David build me a 12 watt amp that has killer tone. He will build one special for harp players. These amps are reproductions of the old style Valco amps with octal tubes. Reasonable price.Check him out.
I play through a bullet, 545 and an SK9 (that I got from Nasty Old Dog) they all sound great through this amp.
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"I have a high tolerance for boredom as long as it has a groove" - Scrapboss
Last Edited by on Jun 10, 2010 11:05 AM
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boris_plotnikov
127 posts
Jun 10, 2010
12:00 PM
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It sounds great with certain amount of volume. If it's quieter it's worse, if it's louder it feeds back.
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http://myspace.com/harmonicaboris
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barbequebob
899 posts
Jun 10, 2010
12:16 PM
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It depends on how well your band cantrol its volume (that can be a HUGE challenge) and even more so, the kind of volume needed in a particular room/gig you're doing. Most of the time I gig using a standup bass rather than an electric bass, and so the volume tends to be lower for me and has allowed me to gig in places too often a lot of times an electric bass can get too loud for and besides being nicer to my ears in terms of volume, it's a helluva lot easier in terms of weight and loud in/setting up/breaking down.
I don't do the harp mod tube swaps at all, but what I did was replace any Russian or Chinese made tubes of the same numbers it calls for with NOS US made tubes of the same numbers.
I've also used this amp for a number of recording sessions as well and for me, it's sort of like a Bassman at 1/4 of the weight and 1/3 of the volume. In some rooms this amp was actually too loud.
The one I have I bought in 1995 and it was one of the last ones that were still using the 25 watt Eminence Legend speakers that were used on the original Fender 4-10 Bassman reissues with the Alnico magnet.
The only thig I wish this amp had was a standby switch, but other than that, it's just plug in and play and no BS. I just turn the tone control all the way down.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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Joe_L
360 posts
Jun 10, 2010
1:45 PM
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Bob's message reminded me of one benefit to changing the speaker.
When I had the stock speaker, I kept the tone control turned completely off.
After, I swapped out the stock ceramic speaker in my Pro Jr w/ a Weber 10A125-O, the sound of the amp was a little darker. Turning up the tone control made the amp cut through the mix a bit more.
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paul45
32 posts
Jun 10, 2010
6:55 PM
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Hey Joshnat, no opinion on the pro jr. But I may have an amp of interest to you for sale soon. No hardcore sales pitch just info on a great sounding amp. contact me paul45@hotmail.com if you want
either way, best of luck with your search!
Paul
Last Edited by on Jun 10, 2010 7:03 PM
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Ev630
592 posts
Jun 10, 2010
7:30 PM
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Scrapboss - how much?
I was looking at the site the other day - those amps look sweet.
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Scrapboss
91 posts
Jun 10, 2010
11:35 PM
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Ev630 - It was right at $600 shipped from Cali - Ill.
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"I have a high tolerance for boredom as long as it has a groove" - Scrapboss
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Ev630
595 posts
Jun 11, 2010
1:45 AM
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Great price and the amps look sweet. How's the tone?
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joshnat
51 posts
Jun 11, 2010
10:30 AM
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Thanks all, for the input. Our GTR player has a Pro Jr. he brings to gigs as a backup for his SF Deluxe. I will try it on one set at our gig tomorrow to see how it does. The venue is a very small room, so I imagine it will be fine.
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barbequebob
904 posts
Jun 11, 2010
10:54 AM
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On most gigs I do, if it's a place I've never been to before, I bring both my Pro Junior and my Bassman and I usually start with the Pro Junior and if that cuts it adequately, then that's all I'll bring next time. Some rooms I've played can fool you because of their acoustics and I've played some rooms where even a Pro Junior was far too loud, some rooms where a Bassman was the right amp even tho the room was kinda on the smaller side, or Pro Junior was right even tho the room seemed large and it all came down to room acoustics and every single room is going to be different.
Just because something sounds great in your living room or the basement of your house doesn't always mean it's gonna sound good at the gig and the acoustics of some rooms can be so bad that nothing ever sounds good.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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hvyj
398 posts
Jun 11, 2010
11:41 AM
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"Just because something sounds great in your living room or the basement of your house doesn't always mean it's gonna sound good at the gig"
Absolute truth.
Corollary wisdom: The more gear you use for a gig the more problems you will have. All things being equal, simpler is better,
Last Edited by on Jun 11, 2010 11:43 AM
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Kingley
1246 posts
Jun 12, 2010
1:50 AM
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A Pro Jr is loud enough for gigs if the band is sympathetic to harmonica. If not then you'll need something bigger.
I used a Pro Jr for years. Great little amp with a big sound. The only swap I did was change V1 tube for a 12AY7. You don't need to swap the speaker out at all. I also agree with BBQ Bob it's like a mini Bassman.
I also agree with Joe L, the HarpGear Double Trouble is a killer amp.
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Scrapboss
92 posts
Jun 12, 2010
2:13 AM
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Ev630 - Listen to Dustin Arbuckle of Moreland and Arbuckle. He plays through the same amp using an EV630. He is the one that turned me on to David Barrett, the builder of these amps.
Joshnat - Sorry for the continued hijacking of your thread.
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"I have a high tolerance for boredom as long as it has a groove" - Scrapboss
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Ev630
599 posts
Jun 12, 2010
6:53 AM
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I'll check it out - thanks.
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jim
158 posts
Jun 12, 2010
7:02 AM
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barbecuebob,
"what I did was replace any Russian or Chinese made tubes of the same numbers it calls for with NOS US made"
LOL "US" made Electroharmonix tubes are actually made in eastern Russia... by Sovtek (although they are stamped "US, ELECTROHARMONIX". Are there any tubes made in US at all?
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Ev630
600 posts
Jun 12, 2010
7:37 AM
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Just found some stuff - nice tone on the harp.
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harpwrench
293 posts
Jun 12, 2010
7:39 AM
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JIM- he said *NOS*
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Joe_L
363 posts
Jun 12, 2010
9:13 AM
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Very little is mass produced in the US anymore.
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barbequebob
907 posts
Jun 12, 2010
10:23 AM
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Groove Tubes GE 6L6's, but that is it. The last time prior to those was back in 1985. Tubes were no longer manufactured in the US and Western Europe because by 1985, the single biggest customer of all the tube manufacturers was the military and one military base bought more tubes in a year than all of the musical instrument amplifier makers combined twice over, and by 1985, all the military computers were converted to solid state and the military (at that time) already had a 300 year supply. the next time a military base closes down, theere will be a greater batch of NOS tubes that will become available.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Last Edited by on Jun 12, 2010 1:26 PM
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jim
159 posts
Jun 12, 2010
1:37 PM
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Sorry didn't notice the abbreviation..
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www.truechromatic.com
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paul45
33 posts
Jun 12, 2010
5:51 PM
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@scrapboss, cool looking vintage 47 amps, what model do you own, output, speaker size etc.
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joshnat
52 posts
Jun 19, 2010
2:50 PM
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Well, I did a lot of reading and scoured the web. The Super Champ XD interested me as guitar players were absolutely raving about it. I thought that if they loved it so much, it must have some potential for harp. I really wanted a Princeton Reverb, but it was way out of my price range. Even so, the few bits of info I could find from harp players were not encouraging.
So, I found a SCXD used, swapped the speaker with a Jensen C10R I had and the power tubes with new JJ 6V6S's and the thing really sings a smooth blackface tone. Using it with my Bulletized Shure 545 Ultimate, I'm able to get just enough breakup to sound good without fuzzing out. I tried all kinds of pedals before it (Harp Tone +, Kinder AFB), but it sounds best directly in, and is surprisingly feedback resistant when managing microphone gain with the 545's volume control.
Tonight is the first gig I'll use it, and I'll report back more tomorrow. I hope to get some sound clips from the gig later in the week when our guitar player splits up the live tracks. Stay tuned!
By the way, the amp has about a million different amp models in it, but I found that the basic channel one blackface sounded the best. Next best would be the tweed Bassman model, with a bit of gain. The whole preamp is digital but sounds much warmer than the models on my Digitech RP250. This is probably because of the tube phase inverter and tube power section.
Last Edited by on Jun 19, 2010 2:50 PM
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JimInMO
68 posts
Jun 20, 2010
6:37 AM
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@ joshnat. Have you checked the tube bias yet? I tried a SCXD awhile back and didn't care much for it and returned it to the dealer. Was kind of disappointed as I had read such glowing reviews. Wanted it for a grab and go guitar/harp jam amp. Then read on a couple of guitar forums about some of them being biased ridiculously cold out of the box. Was in the same shop for some other supplies and asked the owner if that was the same amp I had tried sitting in the corner. He said it was and it had been out and returned several times He was trying to exchange it with Fender. Took a chance and made him a low ball offer which he took. Got home, pulled the chassis, hooked up the Fluke and sure enough. 19ma, Fender specs say 40ma. Cranked it to 40 and there it was. Everything I had heard about. Works great in my living room and our rehearsal space. Haven't tried it anywhere else yet but should be fine mic'd or using the line out. I too put in JJ's but can't really hear any difference. Have read elsewhere that JJ's are pretty robust tubes and work best biased at 50ma. Haven't tried that yet but will sometime.
At home I really like just a touch of the delay/reverb setting and dinking around with some of the models snd a little gain. With the band straight into channel 1 and no effects works best.
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barbequebob
960 posts
Jun 20, 2010
12:07 PM
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Remember this when doing tube swaps and this is VERY important!!!!!!! When you change preamp tubes, rebiasing is not necessary because preamp tubes are self biasing but if you swap power tubes or rectifier tubes, the amp HAS to be rebiased in order to work properly and you could actually cause damage to the amp's circuitry and if you have an amp with a printed circuit board, that can be an expensive repair.
Even with power tubes of the same number but from a different company, the amp may also need to be rebiased.
Again, for PREAMP tubes, it's not needed, but with POWER TUBES OR RECTIFIER TUBES, it is ABSOLUTELY NECCESSARY to have the amp properly rebiased for them before installing them.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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joshnat
53 posts
Jun 20, 2010
1:59 PM
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@JimInMO: Yes, the bias made a big difference, even with the stock tubes. Mine wasn't as cold as yours, but it was cold. With the JJ's it got even better.
I gigged with it last night and I think it sounded great. It was such a relief not to be constantly fiddling with pedals for tone. Turns out channel 1 was the most useable. The models in channel 2 sounded thin by comparison.
Turning the amp up and the mic volume down worked well also.
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