I really like Nat riddle's version of this on the tape Adam sold. I'd like to do it at the jam. The chords are:
i/v/ i/v/ i/v/ i/v/ i/v/ i/v/ VI/V7/ i///
Do blues guys have a name for this kind of chord progression? Like a secret code so I don't have to spell it out. My current plan:
"8 bar progression, start on the i, alternate back ant forth from i to v every two beats until bar 7, where you hit the VI, then the V, then back to i on bar 8. Repeat."
Experienced jammers, help me out, I hate looking stupid, and i hate making other people feel stupid too. Is there a name for this kind of progression in bluesland?
Make sure you tell them it's in a minor key. That's the end of my help.
Our gang does the first line a little different. There is another V chord near the end of the first line
I/V I/V I/V V/V I/V I/V VI/V7 I/I
but we actually do it Am/Dm Am/Dm Am/F E/E Am/Dm Am/Dm F/E Am/Am
There is more than 1 way to play it, (like thos E chords are probably E7) and I'm sorry I don't have a good description for it.
Last Edited by on May 18, 2010 3:54 AM
I have no formal music training, so maybe I'm wrong, but i think of it as a natural minor because it has a flat 6th (F) which is the minor third of the Dm chord. (I'm assuming we're playing the tune in A minor)
That's why i play it in fifth position (on an F harp). I either play the 7th flat or avoid playing the 7th on certain of the changes, but I am not certain that this is the "correct" way to play it. But it seems to sound okay played that way, and in fifth position you can only get the major 7th (leading tone) by bending blow 8 which I can do, but usually don't. (I don't OB at all, though.) Maybe it's actually a harmonic minor, I don't know for sure, but that's not how I've been playing it.
You have written the chords out as minor i and minor v--I'm not sure that's right, but if is (and it may well be) the flat 7th (G) is the minor 3rd of the minor v chord (E minor), and if you are playing E minor and you play G# (leading tone) instead of G it will sound awful.
But I'm not sure about the actual chord changes. What Jim Rumbaugh wrote out is i/iv not i/v and I think that's how I've been playing it, but my band doesn't do it and I've only played it at jams, so I'm not sure about the chords--I just know that it has a flat 6th for sure and that it's very playable using fifth position.
Most harp players at jams seem to really struggle trying to play on this tune. It seems like they either try to use second position and blow major 3ds all over the place or try to use third position and blow major 6ths all over the place, both of which sound pretty bad. I'm not saying that it can't be played in second or third position, but to do so requires more skill and considerably more discretion than most jammers seem to be able to muster. I happen to think it lays out better in fifth position.
Btw, i haven't actually heard the Nat Riddles version that you're talking about.
Last Edited by on May 18, 2010 8:17 AM
Its actually a folk tune so it won't follow the blues convention. It is an 8 bar folk progression.
Roger McGuin has an excellent remake of this on his web site and he plays it on a 12 string.
It follows a similar (but different) pattern to JR's outline except its in Em.
.......1st.....4th.......1st.....1st I went down to Old Joes Barroom .......1st......6m.......5th.....5th in the Village by the Square .......1st......4th......1st....1st They were serving drinks as usual .......1st......4th......1st......1st And the regular crowd was there
yada yada yada....
Because its such a classic old folk tune I am sure that there are many variations of this but truly a great harp tune too.
---------- "Keep it in your mouth" - XHarp
Last Edited by on May 18, 2010 6:23 PM
The way most of the gang plays it at The Harmonica Club is in 3rd position. But then, I have been pushing 3rd position and minor tunes on this group.
Some are VERY reluctant to try 3rd. Especially seasoned players that are set in their ways. Most of our gang does it the simple way. Start on 4 draw, work your way up and NEVER play the 7 draw. You can make a lot of music with those notes.
There are a few in our group that can play cross and get the minor 3rd on the 3 draw. But then, there are a few that bought MINOR harps so they would not have to learn anything new.
I'll second the 5th position. Playing on a C harp in key of Em. Em is the relative minor of G, so the notes played are generally the same you would use in 2nd pos, making it easy.
i started out playing the version in the above Clip wich i learnt from a begginer harp book, a very simple version it is a good way for beginers to play it this way but third Position is much more challenging:)
I played it in 3rd at the club. Fortunately one of the guitar players knew it, so I didn't have to explain. It worked great. What I really loved was that the melody fits my voice and my way of thinking about melody MUCH more than most 12 bar blues tunes, which I never get the hang of singing.
I tried it in 5th, works great. Only think I don't like is if I want a leading tone in the 1st octave i have to OB the 4 hole, which I find a little harder than 4 draw bends (which give you the leading tone in 3rd.
@Jim Rumbaugh: The reluctance of some players to use multiple positions is puzzling. I mean, what would anyone think if a tenor sax player told you he can only play in Bb? No one would take him seriously as a musician. Being able to play a harmonica in multiple positions is like being able to play another instrument in more than one key. For other instruments that's a necessity. I've never understood why harp players don't ordinarily look at playing the harmonica the same way. Go figure...
@phogi: Your latest post illustrates why a player who CAN play in multiple positions would validly choose one position rather than another for a particular tune. Nice to be able to have such musical options.
Multiple positions are a good thing. Jim Rumbaugh's got a really strong club down there in Huntington, that's still young, they've a lot of potential down there. Me, I play this song in 4th position on diatonics. I can do something pretty cool with it, I can play it on a 48 chord harmonica. It's possible, by lip pursing and playing melody lines with single notes, plus the IV chord and an augmented chord on the 48 chord harmonica. Most of the notes in the I chord is an arpeggio of the I chord... the construction is very simplistic, which is one of its most endearing qualities. So when I play it around the house, I'll do one time through on the 48 chord, then switch to 4th position on a diatonic.
This is a cool thread and shows the variations that can be played. Multiple positions are good too but I'd like to hear a clip of you playing in both those positions ERH. Any chance of posting that?
---------- "Keep it in your mouth" - XHarp
Last Edited by on May 19, 2010 1:23 PM
I don't have a working video camera. But this is how I play it... although I play it as Jimmie Rodgers' "Gambling Barroom Blues" but it's the same tune with different lyrics. So I'll break down the St. James Lyrics and how to play the melody onthe 48 chord: I went down to St. James Infirmary To see my baby there, She was lyin' on a long white table, So sweet, so cool, so fair.
1) (played single notes lip pursing on the F# minor chord: "I went down to the...") 2)(tongue block octave on Bminor chord: "St. James...") 3)(played single notes on the F# minor chord: "Infirmary To see my baby..."[blow bend note bent down, then up on "Baby")) 4)(Hit the Db augmented, then resolve on F# minor chord:"there...") 5)(Arpeggio of F# minor: "She was lyin' on a...") 6)(tongue block octave on the B minor chord: "long white...) 7)(single notes on the F# minor chord: "table, So sweet, so...") 8)(Db7 chord: "cool, so...") 9)(F# minor chord: fair...")
The augmented chord and the Db7 sound pretty neat, the augmented especially adds a lot of tension and it resolves nicely on the F# minor chord.
Then, I switch to fourth position on a Paddy Richter tuned A harmonica in F# minor for the rest of the song.
Last Edited by on May 19, 2010 2:27 PM
