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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
tongue block bend air leakage
tongue block bend air leakage
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yogi
9 posts
May 17, 2010
9:24 AM
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hello All.
This pucker player has accepted the ned to tongue block. Been working away at it but hit a couple of hurdles.
I struggle getting 'punch' to my blow notes and when it comes to bending draw notes i get a lot of leakage out of the right side of my mouth making the note feeble.
Everything i try to do to prevent the leakage seems to just block the note. Worked on having it deep in my mouth, dropped pallet, blow gently... any other ideas?
On aside, moving to tongueblocking has been frustrating in that the tone i had worked so hard at getting whilst puckering is no where to be found tongue blocking.
Has anybody made the transition from pucker to tongue block and how long was it until you were as happy with your playing as you were puckering?
I know, depends how hard you work, hour much practice you do etc but just ball park indicators welcome.
Not looking for advice on dog traing, mystical nonsense, religeous conversion or the power of the inner self.
many thanks in anticipation.
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mr_so&so
317 posts
May 17, 2010
9:51 AM
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Hey yogi, I made the switch to full-time TB last November and it has taken about this long to have it feeling really natural (I play about an hour a day). In fact, for draw bends I find that I like the tone better now and they seem easier to do than lip-pursed. As for blow bends, I'm still working on those. I can do 8 and 9, but not 10 with any consistency yet. From the player videos on Dave Barrett's site, it seems many TBers still lip purse the blow bends anyway (even Dennis Greunling LPs the 10 blow bend). But I'm sure, with enough practice, they are all possible TB'd.
As for tone and air leakage, I've never had that problem. Perhaps you need to adjust your tongue position a bit. Nasty Old Dog gave a good tip a while back that has helped me (I believe BarbequeBob also says this). That is, once in the TB emboucher, don't drop or move your jaw to bend; learn to let your tongue and throat do the work.
Good luck with it. I'd like to hear what MAL has to say on this topic too.
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DirtyDeck
41 posts
May 17, 2010
3:48 PM
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I've been trying to learn TBing for about 6 months now proper, and it's only becoming natural now. I'm sorry mate but it's a loooooong hard grind to get there (at least in my case), but it's sooo worth it :)
As far as air-leakage goes, the best thing I can reccomend is perserverance, just keep practicing your blues scale every day and you'll work it out yourself eventually. I also found that practicing tongue flutters and the tongue-switch helped me somewhat when coming to TB bends, seems to build strength and dexterity, and the sense of awareness you have with your tongue.
Hope some of that makes sense :/
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LeonStagg
170 posts
May 17, 2010
3:56 PM
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Stick with it yogi, it will fall into place in time.
One thing that helped me with tounge-blocked draw bends was a bit of articulation....sounding out the keee sound for unbent draw notes, and the kooo for bent draw notes. This might get you cleaner on the process....worked for me. Good luck!
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Nastyolddog
744 posts
May 17, 2010
7:01 PM
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Everything i try to do to prevent the leakage seems to just block the note.
Worked on having it deep in my mouth, dropped pallet, blow gently... any other ideas
Relax if you have only been trying for say the last 2 3 or 4 weeks?
you are trying to force your tongue against the Harp to hard this blocks the note,
you are possibly sloberibg like a rabid dog allso,
relax take the harp hold it gently,
placeing your tongue and lips around the Harp big full open mouth ready to play a note,
keep trying to get a note this way,, blowing and Drawing it will come,
Bends please follow Mr So&so's advice
Thanks Bro:)
Has anybody made the transition from pucker to tongue block and how long was it until you were as happy with your playing as you were puckering?
3 weeks but!!!
i sat down like a mad man 4 hours a day
but every other chance in the day i had i would pick up my Harp and run a scale,
My method i started to sound out a clear TB note on hole 4 only,once i got a clear note i moved on to,
practising 1st position scale nothing else just the scale,
i didn't try to play songs if i got my 4 hole note clear and fluent with the 1st position scale i knew the rest would come,
trying to Learn TB'ing whilst playing songs only gives you more hurdles to jump,,why make it hard on youself,
learn scales go from 1st postion to second position up the ladder,
you will learn to TB quicker learning scales than you will learning a song or trying to play your Old tunes,
this is where i think most persons learning TB get frustrated and it becomes a longer Journey than it should be:)
And on the 4 week i walked through the door a new Player
and i TB every Note on the Harp 1 to 10:)
Nastyolddog TB NAZI:)
Last Edited by on May 18, 2010 1:37 AM
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528hemi
107 posts
May 18, 2010
12:25 PM
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Learned to pucker for my first full year. Got good at bending all holes except the 10 and moved to TB'ing about 4 months ago. Everything is starting to fall into place nicely. I do not regret learning puckering first although mentally it is hard to take a huge step back in the beginning while you feel like a total beginner again. The positive thing is you know what bends sound like and what to strive for.
I still feel at times there will be a need to pucker so I am also keeping those skills up. I only practice about 30 minutes a day and feel another 2 months is needed if I work hard at it to get that new nuscle movement locked in. For me, I find I use much more of the forward portion of my tongue that being humping up alot more then LP bending to get the bends sounding like the way I LP'ed them. It is a different feel so do try to just put your tongue against the harp and try to do the bend the exact way you do it LP'ed. Think more about keeping the tongue on the harp and humping the forward part of the tongue up and then just adjusting around what works for you.
That is what worked for me and in the beginning felt like going back to LP's a few time. learn both and dont think you need to do 1 or the other. They both have advantages.
528hemi
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barbequebob
830 posts
May 18, 2010
12:38 PM
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For people new to TB'ing, the first three HUGE mistakes that those who lip purse/block make in the transition are:
a.) not having the mouth open enough to fully accomodate the tongue, ESPECIALLY in regards to the shape of the inside of your mouth and the amount of space that worked for LB is often far too small for the TB method and;
b.) too many players new to TB'ing make the mistake of not having the tongue FULLY RELAXED and pressed VERY LIGHTLY, AKA forcing it to happen, and these two things will often create leaks and slobbering all over their harps and;
3.) LB/pucker players too often do not have enough of the instrument in their mouths in order to make a proper seal and so air leaks like a sieve all over the place, and even with the LB/pucker method that can cause enormous air leakage problems even without bending notes.
It certainly is a big problem with embouchure without a doubt, but moving the jaw is actually more like moving the teeth, but EVER SO SLIGHTLY, and most people new to TB'ing or bending notes as a general rule will tend to highly over exaggerate the movement and wind up working against themselves.
With anything you do on the harmonica, if you do things totally uptight physically, you will ALWAYS make things a lot more difficult than it needs to be and forcing it to happen, which, (tho it may not sound politically correct, but describes it perfectly) is classic caveman macho stupidity that many of us trying to learn it fall into that trap and doing that is basically stepping all over yourself and that never makes sense, but many players new to TB nearly always seem to do that.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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