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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Is Charisma relevant to Talent?
Is Charisma relevant to Talent?
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Zhin
418 posts
May 12, 2010
10:43 PM
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Has anyone ever noticed that majority of performers and musicians out there lack the ability to engage their audience or competition eye to eye? And I mean while on stage, in the middle of being in the moment, improvising, but still able to stare into the eyes of people like a lazer beam.
Ever been on the recieving end? It makes my heart skip when the muso is a good one. It's intense. And only so few do it. I have watched some of the best and worst musicians in the world. And not just the folks in the harmonica community that we talk about all the time or people that you meet in jam circles but I mean professional acts. Like Santana, Derek Trucks, Deep Purple, Joe Satriani, Jewel, etc etc...
The thing is, even amongst the titans only some of them seem to be able to engage people and CONNECT. A lot of them do what we all normally do. Look shyly away, eyes usually looking at the ground, or eyes screwed shut tight and passing it off as "yeah I'm being deep right now mmkay?". Though I admit that every single one of us, even the best among us, will do it from time to time.
Something tells me that's what the X-factor really is. And what I noticed is that regardless of who has the x-factor, they all had to do the same thing.
They had to learn how to get good.
I'm thinking that MAYBE, just maybe.... that those who we label as "talented" that apparently have an unfair advantage over us common folk merely just had that INTENSITY and focus in-grained into their character. And although they seem more intense, they still built their skills of the trade from real, raw, and often painful hard work. Not just physically, but definitely mentally too.
And that's my point. To know what needs to be done, in order to get good. I believe that everyone has to do it. No one is an exception. It is a beautiful thing really. I'm implying that ANYONE can get good if they spent more time (with patience, material, and focus) learning what they need to learn to move on to the next level.
For me, sometimes when I don't feel smart enough I just use my faith in who I believe in and take it from them. If they say it's done that way, I just go with it. To me, that's also the smart thing to do because it can save a precious amount of time. That itself is not just faith but humility as well. To admit that one does not know enough and to seek out help from another.
So perhaps all it really takes to get good at anything is to have:
-DIRECTION
-an intense sense of focusing @ PERSISTENCE
-build talent from hours
-humilty and faith
Of course it's never easy. It shouldn't be anyways. At the end of the day, I believe it's all fair game. You get where you are based on the amount of effort and time put into it.
As for me, the journey is still very long and merely begun. I am not trying to be a smartass. I'm merely an observer who likes expressing what he perceives and I love talking to people.
So please.... What are your thoughts?
Is charisma relevant to talent?
Can we get good without it?
Could it be that people have been mistaking charisma as "raw talent" and that the truth is that anyone can get awesome from just putting the hours in???
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http://www.youtube.com/harmonicazhin
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Nastyolddog
698 posts
May 12, 2010
11:38 PM
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Is charisma relevant to talent?
A. all the talent in the world will
do you no good without a splash of Charisma:)
Can we get good without it?
A.No
Spot on Bro when i 1st started getting up at jams i didn't want to engauge the audiances gaze,
i went from being and observer to being observed i thought wow!! there all looking at me,so i looked all over the place my feet the ceiling out the Bloody window if i could,
But now i got used to it i now look directly at the Pretty ladys strait into there eyes flirting with there minds,
or point to people in the audiance
You got to move..Joe
you to got move,
you to got move Joe you got to move while pointing,
so now the stage is more a platform for me to look around at whats going on in the audiance and take control of my situation and every one has a good time,
so i guess Being talented won't do the real deal or you would just be another musician on the stage, i want to leave people asking who is that guy keep them talking,
iv'e met some very generouse ladys this way now that iv'e come out of my shell expressing myself artisticly,
and other local Muso's are asking my Harp teacher
if i would like to get together and work out some tunes with them,
so Even though i think i have none, the old Charisma
seems to be working for me at the moment,
The biggest Hurdle is humilty once your over that it's a breeze your performance becomes so much more relaxed,
and people seem to talk to you in a more positive relaxed manner after gigs it's all Fun:)
Last Edited by on May 12, 2010 11:41 PM
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oldwailer
1248 posts
May 12, 2010
11:56 PM
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I think it's important to KNOW, while you are playing, that what you are doing is the COOLEST FU*KING thing anybody ever heard. It seems to me that this conviction is the cornerstone of charisma.
The rest of getting good enough to believe in yourself to that degree comes from the hard work.
Of course, there are some who think they are great when they're not--where I'm from we call them "assholes--" they just lack the humility part of the equation.
Looking at the audience isn't necessarily the primary thing--Bob Dylan, love him or not--connected with a generation while turning his back on the audience a lot of the time--his charisma was in the music and the message in the lyrics--and he knew it was really cool shit.
When I saw Jason play, he was all over the stage--but mostly his eyes were closed and he was really into what he was doing. He connected through his music with a fierce galvanizing power that didn't need eye contact. . .
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Andrew
964 posts
May 13, 2010
12:22 AM
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I often find myself asking what is a star? For example there are movie stars who can't act one tenth as well as some great actors who will never be stars. A year ago I had some names in mind. Now I've forgotten them.
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Kinda hot in these rhinos!
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Zhin
419 posts
May 13, 2010
2:09 AM
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I still think you don't need charisma to get good. I think it's only relevant when a person is skillful. True, there are some who are all charisma and nothing brilliant going on inside that get all the fame and glory but I think most of the time it really isn't like that. I think most people get there for what they are worth in terms of what they can DO.
A person with charisma still has to work his/her ass off.
I think what is required is intensity of focus and being able to hold it.
I do agree however that faith, believing in your own self (and the people you look up to) is part of the equation.
You gotta be into it and into yourself. That does bring up another question though that would be a whole different topic...
Should we or should we not think about what we are playing while playing it in the moment?
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http://www.youtube.com/harmonicazhin
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phogi
421 posts
May 13, 2010
3:13 AM
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I like to look at people intently while I play. Kinda like a combination of watching them listen, and also conveying "Dude! listen to how cool this is!"
Some eyebrow movement too.
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Andrew
965 posts
May 13, 2010
4:57 AM
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"Some eyebrow movement too."
That's what makes Jason so good! lol!
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Kinda hot in these rhinos!
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toddlgreene
1326 posts
May 13, 2010
5:08 AM
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You don't need charisma to sound good, but it's a MUST if you wanna look good.
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Todd L Greene. V.P.
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Kyzer Sosa
527 posts
May 13, 2010
9:01 AM
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no...
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Kyzer's Travels
Kyzer's Artwork
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Buddha
1821 posts
May 13, 2010
9:06 AM
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copy cat.
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"The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are." - Joseph Campbell
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walterharp
327 posts
May 13, 2010
9:11 AM
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hmm, i think charisma can make up for talent. last gig, some of the things i have been practicing came out and at points, in my mind, my musicianship was better. loudest audience response after a solo.... high blow note, looked up to the ceiling and held it while dropped to my knees, then jumped up three times hitting the last three notes of the solo, one on each on landing... musical talent wise, nothing special.
we have a crusty old guitar player who is gray and a bit on the big side, he plays half his solos looking up at the ceiling... sometimes makes this face where he shows his yellow teeth to the audience while holding a nice vibrato feedback note, he is the player that other musicians stop and listen to and as one woman told me, just when he is playing, the man all the women want to be with (then he stops playing).. it is all talent
so it goes both ways, and if you have both, more power to you.
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Tuckster
527 posts
May 13, 2010
10:45 AM
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I think talent and charisma are separate qualities. A lot of politicians have charisma. I think all leaders in whatever walk of life have charisma and talent. I do not equate charisma with talent.
On stage,I have terrible charisma. I close my eyes and go into this zone. I pretty much block out everything but the band.
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barbequebob
814 posts
May 13, 2010
10:47 AM
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Charmisma, but actually even more than that, stage presence can make quite a difference in how you come across LIVE, but on a recording (and not a video), that won't matter a hill of beans, but charisma along with stage presence helps to sell what you're doing to the audience. I've seen tons of technically gifted players come off to the public as a total bore because they lack those two ingredients in spades, coming off in no uncertain terms, like a wet dish rag who's playing AT them rather than to and for them.
I agree if you have charisma/stage presence/talent as a package, you definitely have it made.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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gene
466 posts
May 13, 2010
12:18 PM
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I don't know if "stage presence" and "charisma" are two words for the same thing or not, but to be safe, I'll use "stage presence" in this post.
Back in the 70s, I went to my first Uriah Heep concert. One of the many things that left me awe-stricken was that David Byron's presence filled the entire place; not just the stage.
I thought it was a natural gift until I stumbled upon this article. I realized that David was doing EXACTLY many of the things that are described in this article. I also learned that David's parents had careers in theatre. So, stage presence can be learned.
However, maybe there's something psycic about it to. I've never seen ANYBODY fill the whole room with their presence as much as David did. In an interview, Heep's guitarist, Mick Box, said David had a presence about him. He said he could have his back to the door, but when David walked in, he just knew it was David.
I believe that stage presence can be attributed to things that cannot be taught, as well. Take Jim Morrison, for example. Even when he wasn't in a mood to engage the audience, he had great stage presence even though he was doing everything wrong according to the article. Why? I don't know. Maybe because he was good looking to the women and looked cool to the guys...And/or he was unpredictable. No telling what he might do next...And/or there's a certain undefinable power in the music that draws the audience's attention to the stage, and of course the front man is the center of attention on the stage.
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Blueharper
115 posts
May 13, 2010
12:54 PM
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I'm not sure you need charisma unless you are a front man.I am sure 80% of you guys are a better harp player than I,but I am pretty;).I have a decent voice.
I have been told that when I am on stage it looks like i am having fun.That could be a key component,looking like it's fun.
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barbequebob
815 posts
May 13, 2010
12:57 PM
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Nice article, Gene. Some of this can be taught but there's some things that you really can't properly teach (at least from what I've seen anyway) when it comes to stage presence.
Charisma kinda goes hand in hand, but even that can't always be taught well either for that matter.
How many times have any of us seen performers just stand like a total statue, no eye contact, no body/hand/foot movement come across to an audience well?? Very few of them and how often have any of us seen a performer walk into a crowd, still making eye contact, getting no response from the audience?? Very few times.
It's all kind of mastering the air of looking and feeling confident wihout being cocky or snobby, even if you're sh*tting klinkers in your pants. Looks may help some, but up to a point if you don't have the goods to back it up.
If you're playing in front of an audience comprised of 80-95% musicians, you can get away with no charisma or stage presence, but the reality is, how often are you going to be playing for an audience like that in your lifetime?? At the most, maybe 1 or 2 times realistically and 99% of the time it's not gonna be in front of musicians, but just plain old everyday people and here's where presence and charisma is something you can't get away with not having even in the slightest degreee possible unless you love coming off like a wet dish rag just playing to and for yourself rather than to and for the audience.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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Blueharper
116 posts
May 13, 2010
1:04 PM
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Bob,"even if you're sh*tting klinkers in your pants"
that sums it up for me most of the time.
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Blackbird
137 posts
May 13, 2010
1:07 PM
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Charisma is relative to popularity. And sometimes people mistakenly believe someone popular is talented. Sometimes you get both.
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barbequebob
816 posts
May 13, 2010
1:10 PM
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@Blueharper--Stop revealing secrets like that! LOL
@Blackbird--That is as true a statement as I've ever heard!!!
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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congaron
909 posts
May 13, 2010
1:57 PM
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There are things you can do to develop a "stage presence" when you play. Because my mouth is covered when i play, I drop my hands between phrases to allow frequent smiling and eye contact. Since "there's a lot of music in the rests," there are lots of opportunities for sniley eye contact...even whe soloing. Hand gestures, both to the band members at key moments and also at the audience..or even to the sky...can really spice up your stage presence during solos and rhythm accompaniment of someone else. Getting them clapping, or singing along if they know the song is another cool thing to do.
All this stuff makes it more fun for the audience and for you too. It helps you relax and makes each time more comfortable.
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Zhin
423 posts
May 14, 2010
1:54 AM
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One of the main reasons why I started this thread was because of what I noticed from Chris when I saw him playing live around people in person. He has eyes like a lazer beam and seems to be almost emitting pure energy from his being. It's intense and powerful.
He's actually even tougher and even more intense in person. A very nice guy too who will cook for you if you're nice too.
I asked him about the stage presence and lazer eyes thing and he was surprised I even notice these things about people. What I got from him was he says it's just part of his personality and that he still had to learn to get good. I agree with him about this since I've always believed it even before he told me.
Wow I like where this is going but my time is up right now. I have to rush to a jam soon so I have to keep this short. I'll be back for another reply.
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http://www.youtube.com/harmonicazhin
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