At a local jam I was fronting the other week, two of the guitarist's were discussing the songs for the night..
One said to the other "So what numbers are we doing?" , the other guitarist replied "Well Paul will tell us what he calls the groove, give us the key and the tempo, tell us if it's a 12 bar, 8 bar, etc, tell us if he's bringing it down from the 5 chord, then count us in. The other replies "So not much help really then!"
At first I honestly thought he was joking or being sarcastic, then it became apparent further into the conversation that he was deadly serious. He thinks I don't give them enough info for each tune.
So lets look at it again. Bear in mind they don't know the actual numbers (even though I have given them CD's of them in the past), so I can't call for example "Deal the Cards in the key of A".
Here's what I tell them.
1. Key of the song 2. Groove - shuffle, march, boogie, rhumba, slow blues, swing, etc 3. Structure - 12 bar, 8 bar, etc. 4. Whether I'm starting it on the 5 chord. 5. If it's a guitar, piano, harp intro or whether we are all in together. 6. I count them in.
The bass player and the drummer always understand it perfectly. The piano player (who is one of the guitarists) and the guitarists seem to always struggle with the explanations.
Dont go to jams anymore. start a band. jams are filled with untalented musicians.
if they are a member of a band and they dont know what to play, they can be kicked out. if they were any good they wouldn't be at jams. a lot of people have big egos at jams. all they want to do is show up everyone else. and that includes not learning someones song to make them look bad.
show them up and make them wish they had learned your songs by starting a kickass band. Anyway thats what ive learned from going to a few open jams where i live. the local talent here sucks. anyone whos good is in a band of some sort.
I know a lot of guitarists who dont know a simple 1 4 5 progression. if you cant find anyone to start a band with, get to know a couple local bands and ask if you could get up on stage with them. thats what i did and now i have an open invitation to play if i show up at any of their gigs. and you never know if it doesn't turn into anything serious, than maybe one of the guitarist who knows his shit will want to do a side project with you.
Don't tell them anything other than the title and key for a few weeks and when they complain, tell them that they've played those songs a bunch of times and you thought they had it down.
Man, for some reason, it's a lot different these days--back in the day when I was playing with a band and jamming a lot, it was like this--the bass player was the worst guitarist--the keyboard was the best musician--the harp player was an idiot--and both guitarists were the highest. I was a guitarist, of course. It seemed to be like that wherever I went. . .
Too many people expect jams to be like a pro gig and unfortunately, with a few exceptions like the "special ivite/snob jams," or those that may have a regular number of actual blues playing pros there (and the latter is very faw and far inbetween), unfortunately I'm frankly not surprised because that shows more of a rock attitude where learning something called the groove tends to be dead last on their list and jerks like these spend too much time learning solos and none on groove or anything else, including playing rhythm, and I'd bet my money that these guys are likely terrible rhythm players and that's very prevalent in many open jams. I've seen this even in the one I hosted so I know.
Among pros, an idiot like that would get their heads handed to them in a hurry, and if they worked with some of the old school guys who may not even tell you what key, let alone the groove, they'd have jerkoffs like these for freaking lunch and this I know for a FACT.
If I had an idiot like that in my band, he's gone. If he did that to an old school bandleader like Albert King, they'd never hesitate to fire them right there, and I personally saw Albert King fire a drummer in the middle of the first tune of the night.
Kingley shows that the bass and drummer understand something called THE GROOVE, and it's plain as day those other guys are frankly clueless, suffereing classic "white musician syndrome," meaning it's all about their solos and screw everything else and if they still didn't learn a damned thing even after given stuff to listen to, it's pretty obvious that they're the classic 10th rate worthless jam hack that will never learn anything and no pro in their right mind would EVER hire. Everything Kingley has given them, even if they did very minimalist homework, is clear as day and there's no excuses for that BS.
I rarely go to jams because that's larely what you see more often than not and crap like that can really make everyone around them look god awful. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Kingley, you are giving plenty of info to the other players, as long as they are not beginners. At jams you are going to get up there occasionally with lesser talented players and they may need a bit more help. One of the guitar players can quickly strum through the chords for them.
The typical call at a jam goes something like this:
"Chicago shuffle in A, quick 4, watch for the stops, from the 5." The guitar or harp usually rips into an intro right then that sets the tone for the song. The beginner will soon learn what it all means.
Sirsucksalot: Jams are not always populated mostly by untalented players. There will certainly be some, but my jam in Denver (it's tonight, by the way) usually attracts some real talent. Ronnie Shellist did a killer set last week.
BBQ Bob... Jams are fun. Everybody gets to play and everybody has fun. If you get uptight because you think somebody made you look "God awful," you are kind of missing the point.
A couple of years ago, I was on a business trip near Denver. I jammed with Dan Treanor, who I had met a year earlier when I was in town. Delores Scott, a fine singer from Chicago, was in town visting. She is a killer singer. I had a lot of fun.
The next day, I went out to a cool old town called Arvada and went to a blues jam hosted by the Clamdaddy's. It was a really loosely run jam. Some of the musicians were better than the others, but everyone was really nice. The food was excellent. The beer was excellent. It was a fun night.
The next night, I went to a jam that Ronnie Shellist was hosting. I played a couple of tunes with some jammers. Ronnie asked if I was going to stick around. We ended up playing a bunch of Sonny Boy tunes for over 30 minutes. I also ended up meeting a bad ass harp player from Seattle. It was a lot of fun.
Bottom line: Blues jams made a somewhat boring business trip a little more enjoyable and fun. I also met some really nice people along the way.
"Dont go to jams anymore. start a band. jams are filled with untalented musicians.
if they are a member of a band and they dont know what to play, they can be kicked out. if they were any good they wouldn't be at jams."
Not here. The guys/gals already in bands use the jam to practice between practices and improve stage presence, practice thinking on the fly and fellowship with the folks in other bands in the area. We may sit in with each other at a gig even. Everybody gets a chance to solo, nobody hogs the stage. I get called up, but I leave after three or four songs. I always get called back up for a few more. I played nearly 2 hours last thursday night that way. It's expected at the local jam here.
The crowd at our jam is diverse...school teachers, farmers, factory workers, college students, you name it. The musicians are very flexible and welcoming to inexperienced players, while still putting on a great show for the customers. Thursday night last week there were members from three different established bands and a bass player who has been called to sit in by touring national acts when they play in Kansas City. I feel your pain if that's the way it is in your area, but I feel blessed with the exact opposite here. By the same token, A band can stay in a garage and never progress beyond amplified noise...it just depends
im slowly getting the courage to go to a blues jam held every tuesday at a bar not far from where i live. you have to sign up for it early on..as there are plenty of folks in rotation. at least there was the couple times ive been as a listener. the harp players werent all that diverse, playing the same thing over and over again in between lyrics... i dunno. i suppose ill take the leap when i think im ready. hell, im coming to hch, that'll be as good a setup for that kinda thing i imagine. i just want to play some straight blues, the band i jam with is more of a rock n roll group... ---------- Kyzer's Travels Kyzer's Artwork
Do it Kyser! I don't see any down side to jam nights. They get you out in front of an audience, give you some feedback from that audience, help you integrate with unfamiliar surroundings and other musicians, give you a chance to play as loudly or softly as you want, give your amp a workout in a real world stage environment, Let you experiment with settings, mic usage and feedback control...it's a no-lose situation as far as I'm concerned.
Real world vs youtube video and forum feedback. You decide. If the real world is where you intend to play, you belong at jam night.
Kyser- Go for it! Explain to the band that you're new at this. Unless it's a Nazi type jam,you'll find they're very accommodating. And don't be afraid of making mistakes. I've learned more from my mistakes than I have any other learning method.:>)
I will! I told my gal we'd have to make plans to attend the first part of June... Ive got too much going on with work and other "things" to get it done before then. She'll be recording the whole thing... prob at least the first few times i go. and shes a top notch video cam gal...(trust me i know) so ill have some footage of my exploits as well... ---------- Kyzer's Travels Kyzer's Artwork
Where are the musicians who can actually understand the groove etc of the blues??
What Bob said is right but where are you going to get the quality to form a gigging band which works together these days and really kicks ass in the blues genre.
Is it a dying art? question..does anyone care Kingley..plenty of players out there but god its frustrating and makes you wanna give up and as for makin' any money..
BBQ Bob spelled it out. It ain't pretty, you might get sad, but you just might really learn something. I know I'll never forget PT Gustav straightening out my youngster dumbass self out back in the late 70's. I learned.
