harpdude61
99 posts
Apr 23, 2010
5:41 AM
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I took my new Double Trouble to an open blues jam this week and was amazed by the volume of my new amp. In a medium sized venue with a high ceiling and the ego driven volume of guitars and drums, I was heard clearly without ever going past 1/2 way on my volume. Not sure how these things corelate but another harp player with a 12 watt amp had to mic his amp. The DT is 18 watts.
Finally got some time yesterday to play with my Lone Wolf Harp Delay. Very cool but the first thing I noticed was a big loss in volume. To match the volume I was playing without the delay I had to go from 4 up to about 7 1/2. Is this normal? I guess using the delay means using the PA more often as well.
htownfess talks about putting his delay in a line out to the PA in my last post. Comments?
I also noticed that with no delay I prefer the SM 57 mic, but with the delay I like the Green Bullet better. Not sure why.
Thanks again for all the responses to my questions.
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HarpNinja
404 posts
Apr 23, 2010
5:54 AM
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Hmmmmm. What kind of mic? I had two DT's, but couldn't gig with them at less than 6 on the volume. I went up in amp size more for the clean headroom than volume, but the DT rocks!!!
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harpdude61
100 posts
Apr 23, 2010
7:04 AM
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Sorry Ninja...I gigged at around 6, the 4 to 7 1/2 comparison was here at home.
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boris_plotnikov
89 posts
Apr 23, 2010
7:04 AM
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Do you use impedance transformer with your SM57?
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http://myspace.com/harmonicaboris
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HarpNinja
405 posts
Apr 23, 2010
7:05 AM
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Which mic did you use with the delay? That sounds odd. Did you use a transformer inline from the 57 to delay?
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5F6H
84 posts
Apr 23, 2010
7:15 AM
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"Finally got some time yesterday to play with my Lone Wolf Harp Delay. Very cool but the first thing I noticed was a big loss in volume. To match the volume I was playing without the delay I had to go from 4 up to about 7 1/2. Is this normal?" No, it's not normal.
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toddlgreene
1261 posts
Apr 23, 2010
7:15 AM
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I gotta ask the same question-did you use the 57 with the LW pedal in the instance you describe, and if so, did you have the transformer in line before the pedal? If not, that's your problem. I have a couple LW pedals, and I've played thru all of them-there is little or no signal loss with them.
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Todd L Greene. V.P.
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harpdude61
101 posts
Apr 23, 2010
9:42 AM
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Yes, I plug the impedance transformer on the "in" side of delay when I use the SM 57... 2 ft line from out to amp...of course I don't use it at all with the Bullet. I had volume loss with both mics.
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toddlgreene
1264 posts
Apr 23, 2010
9:43 AM
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Were you operating the pedal on batteries or an adapter?
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Todd L Greene. V.P.
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boris_plotnikov
90 posts
Apr 23, 2010
9:53 AM
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It seems that something wrong with your delay... Mine don't cut the volume, just cut some high frequencies which is good for overdriven tone.
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http://myspace.com/harmonicaboris
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Rick Davis
312 posts
Apr 23, 2010
9:59 AM
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If you want to just be heard, an amp with two 6V6 power tubes will be adequate in most settings.
If, on the other hand, you want to really stand out you need more power, not just for more volume but also more punch and dynamics. As Mike said, more headroom.
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-Rick Davis
Blues Harp Amps Blog
Roadhouse Joe Blues Band
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harpdude61
102 posts
Apr 23, 2010
4:19 PM
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got me wondering if their is an issue with my delay...I'll check with another amp.
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Nastyolddog
590 posts
Apr 23, 2010
6:35 PM
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Finally got some time yesterday to play with my Lone Wolf Harp Delay. first thing I noticed was a big loss in volume.
I got a LW-Delay what iv'e noticed is no so much a loss of volume is more of Squashed Tone,
Ok i'm useing Harp Gear-2 Custom JT-30 Shure 51 mod Controlled Reluctance,Pedal powerd by Battery,
i set my Amp up to the volume and tone I want with pedal inline but off,
as soon as i Hit the pedal the Tone gets squashed or say compressed,
this is with delay settings active,but allso delay settings turned down inactive,
sort of like a capacitator as metioned above knocking of the High end frequencys,
so I'm sort of not liking it and find a have made the wrong choice,and possibly should have bought the LW delay 2 Pedal,
so at the moment i'm useing my Behringer Digital reverb AUS $45 has way more featurs and sterio out put to run 2 amps,
reverb settings,Spring ,Plate ,Hall Gate ,Room Modulator,
so theres plenty of room to sahpe your sound all for a Few Bucks and runs on Batterys with out effecting tone:)
Last Edited by on Apr 24, 2010 5:44 AM
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MJ
158 posts
Apr 23, 2010
7:03 PM
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Nastyolddog...I also found that the Lone Wolf Delay was not quite right for me . Some of the same reasons were in play. The good thing is that Lone Wolfs return policy is golden. I returned it within 30 dat=ys and recieved a refund with no hassle. I bought an MXR Carbon Copy and love it. It sucks no volume and the tone remains true whether in use or in bypass.
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Rick Davis
319 posts
Apr 23, 2010
7:15 PM
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Here is a good delay pedal that costs about $60.00: Deltalab DD1
It has true bypass and is very well made with a solid feel. I've been using it for several months; no issues at all. It sounds at least as good as other more expensive pedals I've owned.
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-Rick Davis
Blues Harp Amps Blog
Roadhouse Joe Blues Band
Last Edited by on Apr 23, 2010 7:16 PM
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Greg Heumann
409 posts
Apr 23, 2010
11:02 PM
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The Lone Wolf Harp Delay is the best delay pedal I've used - a wide range of useful settings, as opposed to a bunch of useless stuff (DanEcho). Mine doesn't cut my volume at all. Something is wrong.
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/Greg
BlowsMeAway Productions
BlueState - my band
Bluestate on iTunes
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harpdude61
103 posts
Apr 24, 2010
3:21 AM
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Thanks Greg, I will check chords. Should not be the amp since it is super loud with the SM-57 and the Bullet and no delay. I guess I need to try it with the delay plugged in, but turned off. That should tell me.
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Nastyolddog
597 posts
Apr 24, 2010
7:03 AM
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Yo Greg like i say my Problem isn't loss of volume
but as i say above a squashed compressed effect,
i maybe should have got the LW V2,
Yo Rick mate you steered me right with my Amp Bro,
i checked out the Deltalab DDI on your Blog great work
I'm up for one it's just like me Plain and simple,
and has the bonus of mono or sterio outputs,
you would think LW pedals would have this feature:)
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harpdude61
106 posts
Apr 24, 2010
9:47 AM
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Okay, I am blushing....my wife gave me a 9V battery that she thought was okay...switched it out for a new one and all is well. Sorry....
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toddlgreene
1267 posts
Apr 25, 2010
5:53 PM
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My last post:"Were you operating the pedal on batteries or an adapter?"
I figured it was probably on a battery that wasn't full-power. Do yourself a favor:get the proper adapter, and try not to ever rely on batteries, and if you must-put brand new ones in right before you play. Pedals, especially delay for some reason, suck batteries dry FAST. Plus, if you play a lot, batteries get pricey quick. I highly recommend the Dunlops that Randy Landry sells with his pedals. Don't get a cheap multi-adapter:they're usually not filtered, and you'll possibly get lots of loud stage hum from them.
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Todd L Greene. V.P.
Last Edited by on Apr 25, 2010 5:54 PM
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Cisco
108 posts
Apr 25, 2010
6:06 PM
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+1 on getting the proper AC power adapter from Randy. I love the Lone Wolf Delay pedal!!!
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toddlgreene
1268 posts
Apr 25, 2010
6:10 PM
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If you are in a situation where you must rely on batteries, i.e. street busking thru a rechargeable amp, invest in a multimeter to test those 9Vs before gigging with them, and always bring fresh spares. Or, just lick the contacts-if it doesn't zap the piss out of you, it's no good. ;-)
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Todd L Greene. V.P.
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5F6H
85 posts
Apr 26, 2010
2:57 AM
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I have found the LW delay to be the most transparent delay that I have come accross e.g. it adds the effect with the least colouration/degredation to the source.
But, I have never heard a delay that didn't affect the source sound some. I always use stompboxes with an AC adaptor, guitarists like batteries for the "warmth", to my ear batteries typicaly suck more tone.
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Ev630
313 posts
Apr 26, 2010
3:59 AM
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There was a terrific Youtube vid review of about 6 pedals last year, by Harpsucker. The original LW was by far and away the best sounding of the pedals. I'm gonna get me some when I have some chump change.
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harpdude61
108 posts
Apr 26, 2010
12:53 PM
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Thanks. I will get the adapter. I did sit in with a moderate volume band for a few songs last weekend...outdoors at a marina bar. Never turned the volume past 6 on the Double Trouble and still had volume room left on the Green Bullet. Delay was great and friends that have heard me thru the PA for awhile loved the amp. They had never heard crunch! It is sooooo good to sit in with a group that understands how volume affects quality of the music.
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littleeasy
19 posts
Apr 26, 2010
1:46 PM
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hey harpdude,
do you think a HG2 turned all the way up would work in the venues you are playing in? I'm not geting enough out of mine to use as a monitor. I'm trying to get a hold of Brian to ask him a few questions. Glad to hear how much you like the Harpgear product
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harpdude61
110 posts
Apr 26, 2010
5:12 PM
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I don't know little easy. His site says 5-7 watts for a HG2 and 18 watts for a Double Trouble. I don't know what the variables are on the decibels. Tech guys, does 18 watts mean the amp is 3 times as loud as 6 watts?
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Nastyolddog
614 posts
Apr 26, 2010
6:07 PM
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For most people, 5 watts is completely unacceptable at home, except perhaps during the middle of the day.
Relative to the standard amp power of 50 watts:
50 mW - thousandfold decrease in power (1/8 as loud) 3 orders of magnitude 0.5 W - hundredfold decrease in power (1/4 as loud) 2 orders of magnitude 5 W - tenfold decrease in power (1/2 as loud) 1 order of magnitude 15 W - threefold decrease in power (about 2/3 as loud) 50 W - unity 100 W - twofold increase in power (maybe 25% louder) 500 W - tenfold increase in power (twice as loud)
Three orders of magnitude A 50 watt amp is a thousand times too powerful.
X% louder = 2^log10(P2/P1) * 100%
40 watts is 94% as loud as 50 watts.
30 watts is 86% as loud as 50 watts.
25 watts is 81% as loud as 50 watts.
22 watts is 78% as loud as 50 watts.
20 watts is 76% as loud as 50 watts.
18 watts is 74% as loud as 50 watts.
15 watts is 70% as loud as 50 watts.
12 watts is 65% as loud as 50 watts.
10 watts is 62% as loud as 50 watts.
9 watts is 60% as loud as 50 watts.
8 watts is 56% as loud as 50 watts.
7 watts is 55% as loud as 50 watts.
6 watts is 53% as loud as 50 watts.
5 watts is 50% as loud as 50 watts.
4 watts is 47% as loud as 50 watts.
3 watts is 43% as loud as 50 watts.
2 watts is 38% as loud as 50 watts.
1 watt is 31% as loud as 50 watts.
3/4 watt is 28% as loud as 50 watts.
1/2 watt is 25% as loud as 50 watts.
1/4 watt is 20% as loud as 50 watts.
1/10 watt is 15% as loud as 50 watts.
50mW is 13% as loud as 50 watts
20mW is 10% as loud as 50 watts.
10mW is 8% as loud as 50 watts.
5mW is 6% as loud as 50 watts.
1mW is 4% as loud as 50 watts.
0.5mW is 3% as loud as 50 watts.
0.1mW is 2% as loud as 50 watts.
50uW is 1.6% as loud as 50 watts.
10uW is 1% as loud as 50 watts.
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5F6H
86 posts
Apr 27, 2010
2:34 AM
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...all things being equal! Which they never are - low power amps are built to be cheap (cathode biased, less headroom, SE design), 30W+ amps tend to be fixed bias, more efficient push pull. Voicing, dynamics etc all play a big part too, but Nasty illustrates the point adequately.
It's like vehicles & BHP, a doubling in power won't realise a doubling in top speed, but may provide significant increases in acceleration, cruising speed & general performance.
Likewise in amps, the difference between a 50W amp & a 70W amp - all else being equal, power measured in the same manner - will be very noticable...trouble is, just like with BHP, everyone has a slightly different method for measuring/determining W.
The HG2 is cathode biased & single ended (slightly compressed tone & more raspy harmonics - great for low volume like recording...still loud enough to annoy your neighbours in an apartment, pushing your luck with a drummer with sticks), the DT is push-pull (smoother sound), fixed bias (more headroom) - loud enough to play with a drummer with sticks & not mush/fuzz out. Significant differences in envelope & dynamics make the DT effectively much louder, with respect to the HG2, than Fletcher-Munson curves suggest.
Last Edited by on Apr 27, 2010 3:32 AM
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