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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
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MichaelAndrewLo
271 posts
Apr 05, 2010
10:11 PM
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When I played clarinet full time I never felt a restlessness to be "original" or have my own voice. I simply practiced my scales, my assigned lessons, and learned the clarinet excerpts and heads of jazz tunes I liked. I played music straight up. I have noticed there seems to be a certain restlessness in the harmonica community about whether the music they play makes them a musician or not, or if they are being creative and original enough. Essentially, there seems to be a lot of insecurity and inadequacy with the harmonica. I love the blues and that was what I always found myself playing on clarinet at the end of the day. I think that if I ever developed my own voice on clarinet it was from simply playing what I liked and what felt good to play. It was never a planned thing, and I don't think it ever can be. Just practicing a lot of technical stuff and then letting it rip seemed to do the trick. I am just tired of this searching feeling I seem to have contracted from this forum. A sense of urgency was never good for developing an artistic style. I am just going to practice and play whatever sounds good and feels good to me. One day at a time...
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Kingley
1089 posts
Apr 05, 2010
10:32 PM
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Great post Michael.
That is the way that I approach the harmonica and so do many others. Being "original" simply for the sake of it isn't always a good idea in my opinion.
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Nastyolddog
514 posts
Apr 05, 2010
11:15 PM
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Searching for your own voice is endless give up,
we get scared thinking if i play the Old school tunes
or Play like certain Players
i will only mimick there style and not be myself
will i be playing the Blues,
Bro do as you say Above Play the instrument keep playing it,
there is often talk of those little things that make us our own player,by just playing the Instrument and adding those nuaunces and embellishments in our playing style we find a voice we can become familiar with our signature,
we can all play the same tunes but we can never play them the same as the next person,
i think the biggest stigma about not being considerd a Musician is you have chosen to Play a Harmonica,
we will never get over the Stigma of the Harmonica being Considerd a Toy,
Im not to sure about the insecurity and inadequacy of being classed a Musician by someone because i play Harmonica,
Persons who think like this to me and call them selves Musicians,
are infact not a Musicans arsehole
Just Blindly ignorante arseholes,
But thats the lot of being a Harmonica Player we are frounded on by other musicians,
Beejeezus Bro Ya wanna have a Bitch about
insecurity Bloody Hell Bro do you know Drummers think we are lesser the Musician than them:)
Last Edited by on Apr 05, 2010 11:20 PM
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captainbliss
28 posts
Apr 06, 2010
3:48 AM
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@MichaelAndrewLo: thought-provoking. Thank you.
The juxtaposition between the practice and "assigned lessons" of clarinet playing and the "restlessness" of the harmonica community speaks volumes.
This may well be an unfair and unkind comparison and I know there are plenty of harmonica players whose approach proves me wrong, but...
Seems to me that players of many instruments (other than the harmonica) do things like take lessons, practice, learn theory, learn to read music, learn to play whole pieces, get their heads and their technique round the music they want to make and feel a sense of achievement and progress as they expend their repertoire...
Whereas (some!) players of the harmonica seem to worry about (and indeed spend inordinate amounts of time and money on) mics, delay pedals, amplifiers, combs, coverplates, brass and bronze alloys with nary a teacher or a repetoire in sight...
And, as you say, all the while trying to tap into the mythcal wellspring of their inner blues voice without actually engaging with the elephant in the room...
Learning to play!
Like...
With a teacher, structured and discplined practice and stuff!
@Kingley
/Being "original" simply for the sake of it isn't always a good idea in my opinion./
If at all?
@Nastyolddog
/by just playing the Instrument and adding those nuaunces and embellishments in our playing style we find a voice/
Nail. Hammer. Whack.
xxx
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GermanHarpist
1338 posts
Apr 06, 2010
4:02 AM
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It's the different approaches to the instruments. With classical music, as mentioned, you learn theory, structured practice, etc. and things like improvisation and tone you mostly have to figure out for yourself. With harp it's just the opposite. It is mostly about tone and improvisation and all the rest of music theory you have to find out for yourself.
There are just as many people on the classical side that practice these technical pieces to no end and this at the end defines them as a player.
The whole tone and improvisation thing is just a fundamentalisation of harmonica didactic (if that makes any sense).
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YT
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kudzurunner
1312 posts
Apr 06, 2010
5:07 AM
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The restlessness of the music--be it blues or jazz--is to a large extent the residue of the function that it played in the lives of the African American men who were, for the most part, its originators and purveyors during the period when it was THE black popular music. Both musics evolved during a period of great restlessness (two "great migrations" that saw several million black folk leave the south for the north). Both musics also evolved during a period (1920 and beyond) when the commodification process meant that if you recorded the RIGHT original song, or came up with the right hook, you could become famous and make money. W.C. Handy was incredibly preoccupied with finding out what the public wanted; he jumped on the blues because he saw how much money a "trio of chocolate boys" made during a turn-of-the-century dance in Cleveland, Mississippi playing the "over and over" strains of early blues music.
Many years ago I had a black friend who gave me a little lecture. "The thing you need to understand about us," he said, "is that each generation resents the capitulations and compromises that its parents' generation made with white power. It views its parents as Uncle Toms who didn't really live FREE. This is why the music is always changing. The music reflects the hunger to find a new sound that expresses more freeness right NOW."
This is essentially the argument that LeRoi Jones (now Amiri Baraka) makes in BLUES PEOPLE (1963). Certainly it can help us understand why B. B. King was so focused on modernizing. But when it comes to blues, there's also been a parallel trend in the opposite direction: making a fetish of what is old. The veneration of the "old blues guys," as it were. The continual reinvention and resacralizing of origin-figures. In the late 1930s, Robert Johnson was at least a third-generation blues guy: very modern, and of course highly influenced by records in a way that guys like Son House simply weren't. These days RJ seems like a ghostly origin-figure from the distant past.
So you're right, in one sense: the gear-head approach is probably missing what's important. The trend in jazz within African American circles is actually anti-modern: Wynton Marsalis and Jazz at Lincoln Center have been criticized by Gary Giddins and others for essentially ignoring recent (white) developments in jazz for the sake of consolidating the tradition and restricting it to an almost entirely black canon of greats. Maybe that's what happens when African Americans come into cultural power: when you actually have the power to write history, you get more invested in it, rather than ceaselessly throwing off history for the sake of the modern new sound that offers you the hope of making a name for yourself.
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boris_plotnikov
71 posts
Apr 06, 2010
5:13 AM
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Tone for classical music is twice more essential than for blues.
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http://myspace.com/harmonicaboris
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waltertore
346 posts
Apr 06, 2010
5:30 AM
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You found it Michael! You have put in the time of hard labor on that horn, so it is time to let your soul channel through it. Most people spend their entire life chasing the end of the rainbow/searching for themselves, when we are front asnd center all the time if we just relax, forget, and enjoy. Making music was invented to express, forget, relax. We thinking western hemisphere brains tend to disect, examine, critique, and rarely find satifaction. Whether you are a beginner or a regarded master, the box of limits will always be there if you think because we play instruments with finite limits. But if you forget, and let the soul take over, these finite sounds become infinite to us. That is style. Walter
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walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year.
" No one can control anyone, but anyone can let someone control them"
2,000 of my songs
continuous streaming - 200 most current songs
my videos
Last Edited by on Apr 06, 2010 5:39 AM
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toddlgreene
1150 posts
Apr 06, 2010
5:46 AM
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Boris-I couldn't disagree more. Tone's equally important in any style, and being able to vary your tone, ESPECIALLY in blues, makes or breaks the effectiveness of the harmonica in music.
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Todd L Greene. V.P.
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captainbliss
30 posts
Apr 06, 2010
6:28 AM
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@GermanHarpist
/The whole tone and improvisation thing is just a fundamentalisation of harmonica didactic/
Makes a lot of sense.
That you say "didactic" is really, really interesting. I'd like your thoughts on taught from where, by whom, which values?
@kudzurunner
Very informative and eloquent. Maybe you should write or teach English as well as play harmonica?
Tee-hee...
Er...
I wonder, though, the extent to which these social / historical / cultural factors influencing African-American musicians account for the OP's observations about "restlessness" and "searching" in a demographic which seems to be predominantly white, middle-class, adult males?
@waltertore
/We thinking western hemisphere brains tend to disect, examine, critique, and rarely find satifaction/
Beautifully said.
I wonder, though, whether there really has to be such a dichotomy between "doing stuff" and "thinking about stuff," between free playing and structured practising?
xxx
Last Edited by on Apr 06, 2010 6:29 AM
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kudzurunner
1313 posts
Apr 06, 2010
6:32 AM
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Captain Will-I-Mean-Bliss: Good to have you aboard! I'm not sure how I missed your advent here, but I'm glad you're here.
--the prof.
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waltertore
349 posts
Apr 06, 2010
6:50 AM
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captainbliss: You speak some good stuff! The cool thing about art is we all have complete independence from the world if we choose to go that way. It can be an oaisis from the world of financial survival. We all hopefully find the path that works for us.
I think the $ card has really screwed music all up. I have quit playing full time and am as happy as I was when I first started. It is just for the joy now, just like it was when I first started and the sounds eased my pain and brought me peace and joy. Playing full time screwed that all up. I finally realized I had to retreat and get my head on right. If someone wants to book me now, I am all for it, as long as I have freedom to do what I want. Otherwise I am content to record in my studio.
I don't practice per say - try to learn something. I sing songs and use instruments to compliment them. In time, things fall into place. But even in the begining of new stuff, if the soul is shinning, the sound will shine. Look at guys like John Lee Hooker, Albert Collins. They knew very little but could sure express their message in spades.
My wife and friends say I am eccentric. I usually play at least 40 hours a week, recording my songs. I work full time and that cuts back on my playing.Being a school teacher, I have lots of time off. I love this part of my job. It allows me to go full time playing in my studio much of the year. When I played out full time I would put in at least 100 hours a week singing songs between doing gigs, playing on the streets, and parking garages. I tend to think about music when I am not playing it. That is what I do here. Walter
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walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year.
" No one can control anyone, but anyone can let someone control them"
2,000 of my songs
continuous streaming - 200 most current songs
my videos
Last Edited by on Apr 06, 2010 8:06 AM
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Honkin On Bobo
247 posts
Apr 06, 2010
7:44 AM
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MAL,
Another outstanding post. I'm probably between an advanced beginner and intermediate on the Gussow scale. There's so much for me to focus on before I could even think about whether I was voicing something original. I couldn't agree more with what you posted.
"Whereas (some!) players of the harmonica seem to worry about (and indeed spend inordinate amounts of time and money on) mics, delay pedals, amplifiers, combs, coverplates, brass and bronze alloys with nary a teacher or a repetoire in sight..."
Right on captainbliss, truer words have never been spoken.
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toddlgreene
1152 posts
Apr 06, 2010
8:27 AM
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Bingo-babysteps, babysteps! Learn the basics:train your ear, train your mind-your own take on things will come with time. There's nothing wrong with owning some gear when first starting out, within reason:what budding guitarist doesn't wanna try those new chords he learned on his acoustic thru a Strat or Les Paul plugged into a screamin' amp? It's all part of the learning process.
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Todd L Greene. V.P.
Last Edited by on Apr 06, 2010 8:31 AM
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captainbliss
33 posts
Apr 06, 2010
9:20 AM
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@kudzurunner, @waltertore, @Honkin On Bobo: *doffs hat*
@toddlgreene
/what budding guitarist doesn't wanna try those new chords he learned on his acoustic thru a Strat or Les Paul plugged into a screamin' amp?/
Weirdos like me who like acoustic music? (Should add that I'm neither a guitarist nor - last time I checked - budding).
Good point, though, (if you're that way inclined): playing through a good set up must be a real pleasure, but, as you say,
/within reason/
Not least because gear-fixation can distract attention away from focusing on playing the damn thing.
Part of one excellent harmonica player's recent thoughts on the question of getting good amplified tone:
"Rubbish in, rubbish out."
Bingo a second time?
xxx
Last Edited by on Apr 06, 2010 9:56 AM
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toddlgreene
1154 posts
Apr 06, 2010
10:18 AM
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Sheath that dagger, El Capitan-I come in peace!
You're no 'wierdo' for liking acoustic music. I merely meant that a good number of players were probably drawn to harp or guitar because they've heard the amplified instruments at concerts, on records, etc.-not that EVERY player starting out aspires to crank up to 11.
I personally don't believe that anyone starting out *needs* to have multiple amps, custom harps, and several high-dollar microphones. But, it certainly doesn't hurt to have a taste of what it will sound like to amp up if the individual can afford it, plus it will add a whole new dimension to their learning process when they realize that good amplified tone isn't as easy as sticking a microphone behind a harp.
*doffs and dons hat*
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Todd L Greene. V.P.
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captainbliss
34 posts
Apr 06, 2010
10:24 AM
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@toddlgreene
Dagger? What dagger? I'm unarmed!
(Did we have a UK / US text tone moment there?)
*attempts to doff hat, realises he forgot to put it on again last time, dons, doffs, DONS hat, is prepared...*
xxx
EDIT: I might be a weirdo for... other reasons...
(?!?!)
Last Edited by on Apr 06, 2010 10:26 AM
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toddlgreene
1156 posts
Apr 06, 2010
10:26 AM
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Well, i'm glad one of us is unarmed, but you're not in New Orleans, or you would be, too. ;-)
*gives beer of Captainbliss's choice in a proper pint glass, toasts*
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Todd L Greene. V.P.
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captainbliss
35 posts
Apr 06, 2010
10:32 AM
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@toddlgreene
I'm teetotal...
*raises mug of tea*
To your good health, Sir!
xxx
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MichaelAndrewLo
272 posts
Apr 06, 2010
6:34 PM
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Thanks for all the feedback, it's great. I thought that was an interesting analysis by Adam, don't know how relevant it was to my own feelings though. I prefer to take a simpler approach. I read an interview in a guitar magazine and the person was asked about how to stay away from being a SRV clone. They basically said to that, as important as listening to the greats is, it's just as important to stop listening, and just play and play and play with no influence until "you" starts to come out. I thought that was a great idea and take on how to get a more individual or, at least, a less "clone" sound in ones playing.
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walterharp
291 posts
Apr 06, 2010
7:22 PM
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you are walking around at night a bit drunk (or high on life or your cup of tea or whatever) and find yourself in a big empty stairwell with a harp in your hand, you pull it out and start playing, whatever it is you play then, that is what you want to strive for elsewhere...
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kudzurunner
1315 posts
Apr 06, 2010
7:35 PM
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Yes, Walter, you're right. I did a lot of that sort of playing when I was in my major growth phase. I was captivated by the stories about Sonny Rollins on the Williamsburg Bridge. At some point, it comes down to the player with a harp in his hand and some private communion time with "his music," whatever it be. (Or her music, of course.)
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Kyzer Sosa
281 posts
Apr 06, 2010
8:35 PM
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What ive come to appreciate is that, for the most part, I dont sound like what Im trying to imitate anyway. I try like hell to get every small bit, exactly as its played, exactly as the pro recorded it. then when i feel as if i know the ditty inside and out and then record myself and listen...it sounds okay/good/awesome...but different than the pro.
I guess what Im getting at is that although I want to learn all i can, i dont always use the same nuances as what im listening to when i play the same song. personal choice? me trying to be creative? Keeping in synch with my level of skill? yes to all the above.
Adam Gussow has been instrumental in the foundation of everything i play, and his voice, in some manner of fashion, will echo in my playing too, as his does nat riddles...but ive recently taken a good hard look, some at Adams request, at other harp music. I believe diversifying your harp interests can also lead to a more unique sound for youself.
long winded...sorry
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Kyzer's Travels
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captainbliss
36 posts
Apr 07, 2010
4:03 AM
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@waltertore, kudzurunner:
Thinking about "searching" (and indeed the ongoing "originality" debate), and further to your comments...
Lines of a poem sometimes spring to mind (maybe it's the first time ones "gets" something one's read years before) in those stairwell moments. They're not original but my oh my, they can ring true...
And being able to recite those lines out loud is really quite wonderful...
Bit like being able to play music, really...
xxx
Last Edited by on Apr 07, 2010 4:04 AM
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waltertore
353 posts
Apr 07, 2010
5:30 AM
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Adam: You are right. There is something special about playing alone in a public place. You are with yourself, yet sharing to the unknown people wandering about. I have been able to get that vibe in my studio. I never thought I would be comfortable in a studio setting, and now I am so comfortable, it is scary...... Just goes to show that the more time put in , the easier things get. I put in the time with live and now am getting the balance with the studio. Having total control over my sound is very freeing. No more engineers turning the dials and only myself to cheer or blame for the outcome.
captianbliss: Stairways are the greatest places for playing! After the Newark NJ riots in the late 60's, many of the buildings were burnt and never restored. I found a circut of about 6 that had different reverbs in each and would spend most of my waking hours in them. I had no job, lived with a woman that paid the bills. All I did was blow my harp. I named my first band that came out of that experience- The Stairway Blues Band.
Walter
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walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year.
" No one can control anyone, but anyone can let someone control them"
2,000 of my songs
continuous streaming - 200 most current songs
my videos
Last Edited by on Apr 07, 2010 5:32 AM
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