I know this type of thing gets old, but I have a question about what amp/gear to use. Recently on another thread people posted some clips of JJ Milteau, and one of them has him playing amplified and the tone he has is really the type of amped tone I'd like to have. There's always a lot of talk about what amp/gear to use to get that classic Chicago tone/sound. But personally I'm not interested in having the Chicago sound (too much distortion for my tastes). My question is, does anyone know how I can go about getting the tone/sound in this clip? Specifically, what amp or gear do you think JJ might be using in this clip?
BTW, I'd appreciate it if we could avoid the whole topic of needing good acoustic tone in order to get good amped tone. I am well aware of this, but it's not what I'm asking. Different amps/gear color and affect your tone in different ways, and I just want to know how to go about getting that sound/tone. Thanks for any help you guys can give.
Well in that clip the amplified part is achieved using studio effects in my opinion. He's probably using a high quality studio mic as well.
So the answer is using something like a Digitech RP350 into a PA, with a clean vocal mic like an SM58 would give you the options to achieve that sound.
You could also try a small stomp box overdrive pedal into a clean amp, but it wouldn't be as versatile as the RP350.
Richard Hunter has a whole heap of user patches for the RP350 and probably has one that's close to that sound JJ Milteau is getting in that clip.
My only other suggestion is to contact JJ via YouTube or his website and ask him directly.
Last Edited by on Mar 17, 2010 12:55 AM
Thanks Kingley, I just bought a digitech pedal but haven't had a chance to work with it yet. Hopefully I can find something that sounds as good as this.
Last Edited by on Mar 17, 2010 1:13 AM
If i were attempting to duplicate the sound he was getting, i would use analogue rack mount compressor that has separate input and output level controls. Use the input to to overdrive the signal (sort of like a preamp), set the compression threshold for a fairly quick "hard knee" attack, then fool around with the compression release setting, the compression ratio setting and the output level to get the flavor you are after.
Although it doesn't show it on the video (probably because the solo was overdubbed) it sounds like he is tight cupping a PA style mic. Definitely not a bullet mic.
He is probably also using an equalizer w/ the low mids pumped at 240 Hz to thicken the tone. The EQ is probably first in chain or in an effects loop of the compressor.
Caution: Not all compressors are harp friendly and many digital compressors (like the Alessis) suck tone.
He has a touch of reverb or maybe slight thick slap back delay on the chordal playing, but not on the solo. The solo is clearly overdubbed because at certain spots you hear the chordal playing in the background. He may not be using an amp, and if he is, it's probably not a tube amp.
Last Edited by on Mar 17, 2010 1:25 AM
"i would use analogue rack mount compressor that has separate input and output level controls. Use the input to to overdrive the signal (sort of like a preamp), set the compression threshold for a fairly quick "hard knee" attack, then fool around with the compression release setting, the compression ratio setting and the output level to get the flavor you are after."
Holy cr*p Hvyj, I think my brain just exploded after reading that. I not extremely savvy when it comes to that kind of technical stuff, but I do really appreciate your help. I'll just have to do a little bit of "research" in order to fully understand everything you mentioned : ) Thanks.
EDIT: What type of compressor would you reccomend as being "harp friendly"? I know Jason uses a BBE Optical Compressor, but I don't think that's like the type of compressor you were describing.
Last Edited by on Mar 17, 2010 1:55 AM
The solo could be anything. I played a CR bullet through a solid state Vox once that sounded like that. Not a great analogue tone, but certainly a cool nasty tone that suits amped harp in a loud situation. To me it's a bit buzzy and nasally and not as bassy and organic as, say, an old Bassman. But still cool.
I agree, it wouldn't hurt for it to have a bit more bass to it, but for the most part I really like the sound. Granted this all very subjective, the Chicago sound just isn't the type of sound I'm interested in, but it seems like that's the type of amplified sound that 98% of harp players want. So I'm always interested when I hear people using a different type of sound, like Jason for example, or Lee Oskar, who uses a clean sounding solid state amp and then uses stomp boxes to changes his sound.
Last Edited by on Mar 17, 2010 2:56 AM
i made this recording with: IMac soundcard: Focusrite Saffire Pro 23 mic: Rode NT1A Garageband no effects, just a touch of reverb harp: Beta-harp low C ( = Seydel 1847 customized by me)
Green bullet straight into the desk, or maybe a tightly cupped dynamic mic, again straight into the desk. As stated above, delay and reverb effects added.
I had a valve go in my amp near the end of a gig, so just grabbed the vox mic(Sennheiser Condenser) and it sounded not too dissimilar to that. ---------- The Harpist formerly known as Doggycam
"Granted this all very subjective, the Chicago sound just isn't the type of sound I'm interested in," there is no such single thing as THE Chicago sound, the Milteau clip is more distorted than some Chicago harp sounds I can think of.
Ryan, you are better off quoting specific tracks for references, like you did with the Milteau clip. "So I'm always interested when I hear people using a different type of sound, like Jason for example, or Lee Oskar," Jason plays into a mic into a tube amp, whilst he doesn't necessarily fit what people would associate with a traditional Chicago style, this IS how people typically go about emulating it. What I guess I'm saying is that whether you use an amp, or go straight to the desk, with effects, or not, it's individual playing styles that people really associate with.
I have an old DOD compressor that could do it, but it's not made anymore. The BBE Optostomp is a "soft knee" compressor without many parameters.
DBX makes a channel strip (I think it's the DBX 376) that has a tube pre, a 3 band EQ (with semi parametric sweepable mids) and a compressor all in one rack unit. Very harp friendly piece of gear. Really nice unit, and it has an effects loop.
DBX also makes some stand alone rack mount compressors that would probably be good, but I haven't actually used one.
Btw, don't be intimidated by the "technical stuff"--if you have a compressor to work with, you just start playing with the knobs to see what they do, and it starts to makes sense. You can often find this stuff on ebay if you're persistent and patient about it..
Last Edited by on Mar 17, 2010 5:36 AM
if you want to hear what the chicago sound is listen to all of the players not just the obvious , junior wells , james cotton , howlin' wolf , billy boy arnold etc are also the chicago sound , listen to any muddy waters with harp in it He always used the best harp players in the studio and live , so this tongue block , lip purse argument can be blown out of the water , coz all the famous harp players at the golden age of blues had different ways of playing but all sounded great and if you dlve further back into the early 50's they didn't always use the trusted bullet mic into a bassman , they used anything they could to amplify the sound to be heard. little walter was seen useing a PA amp into several large speakers ,and because a lot of guiatr amps had 2 or 4 inputs they often might have shared with a guitarist . so theres no point in spending loads on modern gear and effects to get "that sound " because you don't really need it
Actually, you may want to put whatever mic you want into amp simulators that were originally made to avoid micing amps and go straight thru the board like a POD or a Behringer V-Amp (which I think is a better deal in terms of both sound and price)> In fact, Magic Dick in one of his Swingtime albums recorded using a JT30 mic going into a POD that was fed right thru the board. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Some of the really full sound on this clip can be attributed to the fact that he is using a Low D harp for the chording parts. Switches to a normal D harp for the solo.
5F6H, you seem to have interpretted that I have some sort of problem with tube amps, which is cerianly not the case. When I asked this question, I assumed that he was playing through an amp (and I assumed it was a tube amp), it was others that suggested that he wasn't.
Of course many of the great Chicago players had varing sounds, but people have a basic idea of what you mean when you say the "Chicago sound" (otherwise nobody would use the term). If you wissh you can point out indivuals chicago players who don't fit the mold, or talk about how none of them had the exact same sound, but it is really beside the point. I'm not really interested in debating this, or talking about what the chicago guys really souded like, or why I should like their sound(which, for the record, I don't have a problem with the "chicago sound", it's just not what I'm interested in). All I was interested in was how he is getting this particular sound.
BBQBOB, I just purchased a digitech pedal and hopefully I'll be able to find some amp models that I like. I've been thinking I may also eventually get a Pocket POD to see how it compares. I got the digitech because I know Richard Hunter has already done a lot of work on making patches(for the digitech) that sound good for harp.
I actually contacted JJ directly (via youtube) right before I decided to ask here. Well I just checked and I saw that JJ sent me a reply : ) Here's his answer:
"tks very much for your kind mail. For the rhythm, I use a Beyer TGX80 direct into the board : deep low and precise highs. For the solo, if I remember well, the mic is a SM58 plugged into a cheap Ampworks modeling signal processor (early version). It's always a drag for me getting the right amplified sound in a studio. Sometimes I play acoustic, send the track to an amplifier and record a new track that I mix with the first one to get the tone I'm looking for. On stage, I'm currently using an ART tube preamp."
I haven't tried the Digitech, but I have tried the V-Amp and the POD, and found the V-Amp easier to use and better sounding. With a set of headphones, these are cool little gadgets for practicing at home without needing volume. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Bob, I was looking into the Behringer V-Amps, and it appears there are a couple of models. There is the V-Amp Pro, and there is also the smaller V-Amp3. Do you have any opinion on the two different models? Ans if I were to eventually get one in the future, which would you suggest.
I have a lot of confidence in the digitech pedals. If you just bought one, I'm sure you will find what you like. If nothing else, go to richard hunter's site and copy his free patches, then work them from there to suit your taste. It's well worth the effort.
