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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Bending the 10 blow questions
Bending the 10 blow questions
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Millman500
32 posts
Jul 26, 2021
2:10 PM
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Well..... I decided that this time I will take my head out of my butt and ask the community and experts! Because I am lost.
I have been playing and recording for a while now, and having a blast, but lately the producers call for a ton of first position and I found myself struggling with a reliable 10 blow bend.
It seems to me, that I can only "control" the bend down in a G and lower harp... That is to say, I can do "Baaaaaaaauuuuu" going through each cent on the way down, just like the 2 draw.
On Ab+ harps, I cannot for the life of me "squeeze" the 10 blow down, it's either the root or the bend, but there's no squeezing going on. I can still play what I need to play in 1st, but without the "baauuu bauuu bauuu" pulling of the 10, like many do on the 9, it loses a lot of soul.
Now to the questions..
Can YOU reliably squeeze down Ab+ harps on the 10 blow? I don't hear any blues guys do it, and Kim Wilson who is my personal role model, when he does Sonny Boy 1st position stuff live, uses a G every time as well.
On the other hand, I did hear the incredible Gary Primich 'RIP' control it beautifully on a C and D harp, which means that indeed the problem is with my crap technique on that hole.
But regardless - If I have the technique to do it reliably and musically on a G, but I can't even get close on Ab+, what do you think it means that I am missing with my technique?
Another option is that I should forget about the 10 pulling in non low harps.
I feel a harp-customizer can pitch in great for this question, hopefully one of the 3 elites that browse around read it.
Last Edited by Millman500 on Jul 26, 2021 3:10 PM
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barbequebob
3655 posts
Jul 27, 2021
8:45 AM
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On a stock harp, 10 blow can be bent (and there are TWO bends in 10 blow) all the way from an LLE right up to a C and that's regardless if you pucker or tongue block to get the results. What sounds like is happening by the way you express it is that my guess is that you may be a pucker player and many pucker players who are self taught have a tendency to severely tighten up their jaw and facial muscles really hard trying to force a bend to happen and then to go along with it, play as much as 10 times harder to accomplish it and those are two very wrong things to do. You will need to make VERY SUBTLE adjustments to your embouchure and don't try to muscle it by playing harder to force it to happen. Also, if you play too hard, you lose accuracy of the bends and will often go well past the floor of the bend, making it physically close to impossible to be able to play a throat vibrato on a 10 blow, especially on the 2nd bend.
If you're using a customized harp from a very reputable customizer, 10 blow can be easily bent from Db all the way up to F# as well.
I have ZERO problems getting 10 hole bends from LLE all the way up to C on a stock harp but, as I said on a stock harp from Db and higher, it can be more difficult, if not impossible, but that's no problem at all with a custom harp from a top of the line reputable customizer.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Last Edited by barbequebob on Jul 28, 2021 8:28 AM
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Millman500
33 posts
Jul 27, 2021
11:26 PM
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Cool Bob! Great points. I will keep your remarks in mind when practicing this.
Can you also gradually pull down the 10b on a C harp? Like the "baaaaaauuuuuuuuu" sound that people often do on the 9b in 1st position.
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tomaxe
187 posts
Jul 28, 2021
7:20 AM
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I can bend 10 blow on a stock C harp gradually and I'm not a great player. I can "pop" in the full step bend on a D harp but can't get it to gradually bend down. But why would you want to? Lol! So, yes, it's just a technique issue.
I'm more intrigued by Millman500 saying that producers are "calling" for a "ton" of first position harp playing.
In my recording experience, admittedly limited, I've never met a producer or engineer (or even a band mate I was with) who knew what "first position" was. They may request a "sound" that can be achieved by first position playing, like "I want that high lonesome note, that Jimmy Reed sound" or "like Stevie Wonder" or whatever, but you can get those tones and feel in positions other than first, like in cross harp or twelfth, it's just where you play those notes in relation to chord changes. It may not be the best solution but it's one way to think about it. Every musician has limitations and often the genius and creativity lies in how you express yourself around those limits.
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barbequebob
3656 posts
Jul 28, 2021
8:32 AM
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Millman 500, 10 blow on a C harp, and getting both beds are not a problem at all. If you're not getting it, the problem is in your playing technique and too often for many players who have bad playing technique will far too easily blame the harmonicas for their problems and ignore their playing technique as the real source of thepr problems, and bad playing technique accounts for as much as 85% of their playing problems.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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Millman500
34 posts
Jul 28, 2021
4:56 PM
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Roger that Sir Maglinte, thanks for lending a hand here.
An honor to have you actually reply to my thread :) Do you think I can email you a memo with my sound, maybe have a listen?
Tomaxe, that's pretty cool! I always hated those high notes but now I have to use them for songs so I better get my butt in gear. I got my ass kicked last week in the studio and it's NOT going to happen again. Spent all day in the forest practicing the 10 blow, I think I saw a few deer run off the cliff at one point
Last Edited by Millman500 on Jul 28, 2021 5:03 PM
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barbequebob
3657 posts
Jul 29, 2021
9:39 AM
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@Millman 500 -- You can or you're on Facebook, you PM me there.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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florida-trader
1550 posts
Jul 30, 2021
7:50 AM
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@ Millman500 - You should not be having that much trouble with the 10 blow bend(s). The full step bend is pretty easy on most harps. The 1/2 step bend can be a little tricky.
You don't mention what kind of harp you are using. Most of the top shelf harps like Marine Bands, Special 20s, Golden Melodys, Suzuki Manjis or Seydel 1847 or Bluess Session will blow bend out of the box on most keys. I cannot speak with confidence about soe of the up and coming Chinese brand harps. I have a few of them, but not enough experience with them to offer a qualified opion.
Regardless of the brand, the lower the key, the easier it will be for you hit the blow bends (and overdraws too). Once you get up around Eb or E, it can be iffy unless you do some reed work. But generally speaking, blow bends don't require extensive customization. Adjusting the gaps will help in most cases.
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Tom Halchak
Blue Moon Harmonicas
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Millman500
35 posts
Jul 30, 2021
10:01 AM
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Yes, I am getting the bends very easily on 10, my question specifically talked about pulling the bend down through every single cent on its way to a full step, this, I can only achieve on a G harp. I am working on getting though... I made some progress yesterday but it's not ready for action yet :)
If someone wants to upload a soundclip of them pulling down a 10 blow on a A or Bb harp, that will give me a great competitive motivational kick in the butt!
Say Mr Halchak, what's your favorite gap in " for most players on the 10 draw (where the 10 blow bend happens i asssume)
Last Edited by Millman500 on Jul 30, 2021 10:03 AM
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florida-trader
1551 posts
Jul 30, 2021
11:57 AM
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@ Millman500 If I am not mistaken, it seems to me that the full step blow bend on the 10 is easier to get than the 1/2 step. That's what takes finesse.
Favorite gap? Not to be flippant, but the one that works. It is not as simple as asking what is your favorite color. I am confident that my goal is the same as every other customizer. We want the reeds in each chamber to respond to minimum breath pressure but not choke if you play it hard. It is easy to improve the response by closing the gap, but then you risk having the reed choke too easily if it is too narrow. You want the best of both worlds - the happy medium. So, you have to start with just standard draw and blow notes and get them to be rich powerful tones. Then you have to get into the draw bends and blow bends and make sure that they are easy to hit. I can get it close by visually inspecting the shape and gap of the reeds, but where the rubber meets the road is how does it play? After I finish tuning, gapping and adjusting a harp, I will put it through it's paces. Scales, riffs, etc. The harp has to move easily from one note to th next regardless of whether they are in the same chamber. It has to play smoothly. Then when you get into setting a harp up for Overblows and Overdraws it adds a whole other layer of skill/work/etc.
Just remember this. When you are ajusting your harps, make small adjustments and then test the harp by playing it. Small adjustments, then test.
Hope this helps.
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Tom Halchak
Blue Moon Harmonicas
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Millman500
36 posts
Jul 30, 2021
12:52 PM
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That makes sense, thanks very much for chiming in from the harp-maker perspective, what a great site!
in any case mine doesn't really cut/mute I just lack the control on the half step, like Maglinte said.
By the way, you two, first Bob - I got your CD a few years ago and I still learn from it! Absolutely nuts.
And Mr. Halchak, your combs make me smile every time I come to play. No, I can't see it while I play... but just grabbing a harp that looks like that already sets everything in a positive vibe of creativity.
Check this out guys, it's insane. (Shown are converted MB 1896 with the Halchack fancy combs and Zajac resin comb on top)
Last Edited by Millman500 on Jul 30, 2021 12:57 PM
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