Millman500
11 posts
Jun 22, 2021
6:49 AM
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Hi there!
I remember years ago, there was a chart with the + - cents of each hole for MBD/Crossover/Rocket, I can no longer find that chart and I am in need of restoring a few harmonicas.
That chart used to say how many cents to add or take away from a given base for each model
Thanks for any help
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barbequebob
3648 posts
Jun 22, 2021
8:39 AM
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If you go to the left side of this site, then click on where it says Harmonicas for sale, and then when the dialog box opens up, then click on harmonica tunings, you'll find the chart of all different harp tunings, including what you asked for. Any harp you don't see listed is tune to equal temperament.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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Millman500
12 posts
Jun 22, 2021
4:30 PM
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WOW!!!
Incredible! Exactly what I needed. This chart is amazing.
Thanks so much for that
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Millman500
13 posts
Jun 23, 2021
1:33 AM
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All done - Every single hole of the harp needed adjustments within 5-10 cents.... Is that normal for a daily used marine band for 5 years? It plays great now, I wonder if it holds. It's my first time really tuning an entire harp against a chart.
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barbequebob
3649 posts
Jun 23, 2021
8:28 AM
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One thing you have to remember is that the pitch will change over time and with hard players, they can quickly go flat in a few short months but with a softer player, it will be a much longer time than that and as par as pitch changes, it also depends on where the dried on saliva and layers of dead skin lands on the reed. If it dries at the riveted end, the pitch can get sharp but if it lands at the free end, the pitch will go flat.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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Millman500
16 posts
Jun 26, 2021
3:53 AM
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Yep, that's pretty cool.
What's your take on SS reeds vs Brass for holding tuning?
I wish Hohner would price their reedplates-only more reasonably. It's like 80% the price of a new harp which rarely ever makes sense.
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Gerry
117 posts
Jun 26, 2021
5:50 AM
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I've just been comparing all the MS reedplates. 0.9, 1.05, 1.05 nickel plated. I cannot say for sure but the "Meisterklasse" reeds definately feel "softer" to work and adjust.Thicker plates certainly give a volume boost.
I absolutely think there may be a market for different reed compostion. Like guitar strings, say soft or medium feel.
I'm a fan of the "MS" concept it's just there were a few curious models. (Some models that were non-MS branded but built on the same model used cheaper/ thinner? reeds ie the 360)
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barbequebob
3650 posts
Jun 28, 2021
8:47 AM
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@Millman500--How long reeds regardless of the material being used largely depends on the amount of breath force you tend to use most of the time, plus your control over your own personal breath moisture (the harder you play, the quicker they go out of tune and/or get blown out as well as getting out of tune).
If you tend to be a really hard player, stainless steel reeds tend to hold up better but if you play softer. ANY harp regardless of reed material can hold up for years based on gigging at least 8-10 nights per month and playing a minimum of 2-5 sets per night. If you play softer, brass reeds should last a MINIMUM of a year in the kind use I just stated and with stainless steel reeds, a MINIMUM of 2 years.
@Gerry--A thicker reed plate DOES add some volume, but that's the WORST thing to give a player who plays too hard all the time because the thicker plate can stress the living daylights of the reed and it ups the risk of reed blowout from players like that as much as 80%. 1.05mm is about the thickness limit for a hard player and anything thicker than that in the hands f a hard player, don't be surprised if reeds don't last a month regardless of the manufacturer.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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Millman500
20 posts
Jul 08, 2021
2:59 PM
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Hey Bob, how are you?
The past three Marine Band Classic that I took out of the box all needed to be tuned extensively to reach the Compromised Hohner from the chart (at 443)
Is this normal with Hohner nowadays? They were mostly too sharp, kind of expecting you to play it hard to "fall in tune" so for example the 5 blow was actually set at zero with a soft breath on both of my samples.
They were OK in the ear, but the tuning made them much more crisp and "right"
So I should just get used to tune all new Hohners - Is that your experience as well?
Seems like Hohner sets them to a 10 cent tolerance, making anything that falls within 10 as a "QC pass" and off to be boxed.
Having said that, I'm not complaining, nothing sounds as good as Hohners IMO, and I can tune it in 10 minutes if it all goes smooth with the rotary and my back doesn't kill me. Just wondering if that's normal in the world of customizations.
Last Edited by Millman500 on Jul 08, 2021 3:12 PM
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SuperBee
6987 posts
Jul 09, 2021
1:49 AM
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It's pretty normal to find they are not tuned like the chart says. In fact, I'd say it's highly abnormal to find one which matches the chart. Put it this way, I've worked on over a thousand harps and have never found one which was tuned just like the chart says. I have found them pretty well tuned with themselves though. And I've had them come back for subsequent service and found them to be still quite close to the way I'd previously tuned them. I agree the steel reeds seem to be more stable generally.
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Millman500
21 posts
Jul 09, 2021
4:04 AM
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Yes Superbee that's exactly what I meant to say. They aren't perfectly tuned but indeed pretty great with themselves (octaves and chords)
Do you use the Hohner Compromise tuning for blues players?
May I ask on a different note, what do you use for combs on MB's? Do you pull out the stock comb and refurbish it, or do you use custom combs for your builds?
Your experience is incredible, hoping I can learn as much as I can!
If you're on telegram, join this harmonica group by the way:
https://t.me/bluesharp23
Last Edited by Millman500 on Jul 09, 2021 4:05 AM
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barbequebob
3652 posts
Jul 09, 2021
8:09 AM
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One thing you have to bear in mind is that harmonicas are NEVER tuned to true A440 because in real playing breath, and this is ESPECIALLY TRUE with players who use too much breath force in their playing, a harp tuned to real A440 will wind up actually being played as flat as A437 and against other instruments, you will sound horribly sour against them and every harp manufacturer knows this for a proven fact.
One f the really bad things about compromise tunings is that with the exception of the one that Seydel uses (which is essentially 19 limit just intonation with the exception that 5 & 9 draw is tuned 2 cents flat and true 19 limit just intonation is tuned 1.5 cents sharp) is that with just intonation, be it 7 limit, 5 limit (which is what's usually used for a just intonation minor), or 19 limit, the instrument is truly and fully in tune with itself when chords stop wavering/beating and all the notes are in true harmony with each other, with most compromise tunings, it's much more difficult to have consistency in tuning from the factory from harp to harp.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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Millman500
22 posts
Jul 09, 2021
9:21 AM
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That's super interesting Bob, thanks for that!
I wonder in what tuning Filisko shipped his Marine Bands to most of the big names in the industry. Anyone ever came across a harp of his and noticed?
I had mine set according to the stock compromise, but I think you're right, tuning to 19-Limit may be more true for blues playing, 2nd and 3rd pos playing, since I never play combo chords above hole 4... What do you think? 19 limit or stick with the Hohner compromise with the 5 and 9 draw tuned -12?
Last Edited by Millman500 on Jul 09, 2021 9:51 AM
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barbequebob
3653 posts
Jul 12, 2021
8:25 AM
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Most every customizer, regardless of what model it is, whenever they are requested to tune a harp to just intonation, unless you specify as the customer you want 7 limit just intonation, the default they will always do is 19 limit just intonation. In fact, one of the very best in the business, Joe Spiers says right on his website that unless you specify something different, all of his will come in 19 limit just intonation.
Until 1974 with the introduction of the Golden Melody as we presently know it (it was the very first 10 hole diatonic to come out of the factory tuned to equal temperament), all diatonics were tuned out of the factory in 7 limit just intonation with the only exception being models like the original 12 hold Marine Band Soloist/School Band models, which were devised as a learning tool for going the next step to the chromatics, and those for decades were the ONLY diatonic models tuned to equal temperament.
All tunings are some sort of a compromise. As far as what tuning you want to use, you need to base it on what genres of music you play as well as the needs they require. If you're super old school blues, you may want 7 limit just intonation (ALL diatonics that were used on the old blues records from guys like both Walters and both Sonny Boys, Butterfield) used harps that were stock tuned 7LJI. If you still want to play blues, but want to play more that just the first 3 positions, 19LJI will be more versatile. The ultimate choice is yours alone.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Last Edited by barbequebob on Jul 14, 2021 8:37 AM
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Millman500
28 posts
Jul 14, 2021
7:58 AM
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Understood Sir Maglinte!
I tuned one harp to 19LJI and it sounds good! I don't miss the higher chords at all so seems like all I get is more accuracy in 3rd position! win win.
Sweet!
GREAT talk.
Last Edited by Millman500 on Jul 14, 2021 8:07 AM
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