Maybe a silly question but I was wondering with all the information about different Harp elements and their sound characterisicts,if you put the same element in a different bullet shell would it sound different and maybe have better lows mids highs etc?
They all make slight differences to the tone of the element.
It's bascially all to do with the shielding properties and caivty shape and size of various shells and the materials used to make them.
Astatic JT30 shells tend to make CM/CR elements slightly less "bassy" than say Shure 520 or 707 shells.
Astatic Biscuit shells tend to make CM/CR elements sound more trebly (thinner) than either JT30 or 520 shells.
A JT30 or 520 that has been powder coated or chromed seems to make an element sound bassier and slightly warmer.
Bear in mind though that we are only talking very, very minor difference here. Most audiences wouldn't be able to tell the difference and a lot of players wouldn't unless they did a side by side comparison.
Of course you have to ensure that you use the correct gasket for the shell and element. That way you ensure the optimum tonality from that element.
I have one particular Astatic T3 shell that sounds like no other shell I have (including other T3 shells). When I put a good CM element in this shell it has a truly amazing tone. I have tried numerous CM/CR elements in it, all with the same result every time.
Last Edited by on Jan 27, 2010 4:31 AM
Hi Bro's my slant is the right shell for the right element is the shell it came in Shure Controlled Magnets or CR elements Shure Bullet Shells be it 707 440 520,,Kingo is right most people would have to be Blind to hear the tone differences..i think the big thing about element swapping is more to do with comfort while playing and or cool looks,,People with small Hands Like the JT-30 or Chopped 200 and other smaller shells than the Shure Bullets,,but in my case a JT-30 or other smaller shells make my Hands Cramp up where the Shure Bullet allows me to have a more relaxed open Hand,,not so crunched up i got extra extra Large hands extra large gloves are a tight fit so holding the Green Bullet shells are no Problem for me,,Oxman the best bet is shop for a shell like you do for clothing try them on for size if Your friends have different mics give them a Play see how they suit your Hand shape for comfort,,or go to swap meets hold the mics like you would playing if it don't feel right in your hand it's not for you don't get hung up on Looks first..But i'm guilty and have a few custom mics JT-30 and other smaller Bullet shell mic's but play mostly the GB for comfort..and going through a stage at the moment instead of Painting my Mic's im Buffing them back to bare alloy,,giveing them the Old Air craft look or Mortorcycle engine case look and looking for a custom engraver to do some scroll work and put my name on them i think it will look cool,,opps see what i mean Im a Style freak allso but it's got to be Practicl allso,,Ps no insult to blind persons i have vision Problems was 95% blind in one eye untill i got a cornea transplant and realyed heavily on my Hearing but doing well now and still have exceptional hearing,,i was Blind but now i see
Last Edited by on Jan 27, 2010 4:23 PM
Yo Kingo thats just me the typo king i was fixing my stuff ups i like to re read what i say as to get the right message accross,,ya know belt out a comment i read it have a look na thats not right better have another go,,we have some diverse personalitys on the foram inclueding myself it's not hard to say the wrong thing at times or have comments taken out of context causeing confusion,,being new to the Foram you might say I'm trying to tread softly befor i trip over a makeing a Boob of myself i do hope i'm doing Ok..
Back in the 70's, many players put CM/CR cartridges into JT30 shells was because they were lighter, you could use the screw-on to 1/4 adapter, and until 1978 when it was discontinued by Switchcraft, you could also use the #329 volume control with them. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
I have a couple JT30 with CMs I fitted in them. I like 'em a lot. Those old Switchcraft volumes have been copied by a guy who sells the copies on ebay. Although I couldn't testify to the quality of them.
The originals on the rare occasion they come on ebay often sell for around $200USD.
There are companies making wooden shells who claim all sorts of sound improvements. I suspect the biggest differences in tone come from the player. Those wooden shells look terrific though. Greg could probably shed some light on all of this.
Oxharp,.. I believe that no matter what the shell is made of or which model / type shell you use,. has no bearing on tone because you cup the mic with 1 or both hands and that alone deadens the shell,.. No matter what it's made of,.the only difference might be those wooden shells like front an center makes & sells ,.http://www.frontandcentermics.com/products.html
Your hands will deaden any metal ,...but not wood ,... Think of a tuning fork ,.when you first tap it ,.it'll ring nice an loud ,...touch it an it goes dead.
Now a Good Rubber Gasket makes all the difference in the word as far as gettin the elements tone out.
Last Edited by on Jan 27, 2010 3:30 PM
However the shell is responsible for how far it places the element from the player - this has an effect.
AND the shell impacts how easily and completely the player can effectively cup the mic. This has a definite impact on tone.
The acoustical absorbency of the shell material has an effect too but it is even less - to the point where you may well need to be blind to hear it. I suspect wood absorbs mid-range and high frequency energy better than metal, which may (and I stress the word may - haven't done scientific tests on this and that is the ONLY thing I would accept as fact) MAY help warm the tone a little and help reduce feedback. My personal experience with my own mics sugests that the wood mics are less feedback prone than the same element in a metal shell, but I fully acknowledge that could be wishful thinking on my part.
Gaskets? Not so sure - clearly an old tired stiff gasket allows leakage from the front to the back of the element and that will negatively impact tone a bit. The reason I want a good new rubber gasket is for its element-protecting shock absorbency (and reduction in handling noise.)
I was wondering what other gasket materials you guys have seen, if other than rubber. I assumed that would be the material of choice and wondered why somebody might use anything else.
sgsax ,. Rubber an silicone gaskets are the best ,. all Shure CR an CM's are pressure operated Elements ,. same goes for crystals an Dynamics. That means to get 100% of the tone out you need that tight seal around the element,.
I've seen Electrical Tape,Masking Tape,Foam,even Bath Tub Caulk used to hold the element in place,.thats what the are mostly doing ,.holding the element in place.
I aggree with Greg,. "I believe the shell is LESS important than:
1) The player 2) The amp 3) The element"
I believe the Rubber /silicone / gasket is most important as far as getting the element to do it's job 100% effectively,. in a bullet style mic of any brand / model,.
Now A dynamic Stick mic use's no rubber gasket,.cup that baby ( hence form a tight gasket with your hands)) and you will hear a big difference in it's tone output.
When I say Dynamic stick mic's that use no rubber gasket I'm referring to Shure 515's ,.545's 580's an the likes of most of their Vocal mic's . They are rubber mounted but do not use a rubber gasket to seal the element.
Last Edited by on Jan 28, 2010 8:57 PM
Hi Greg what you say about the Wood Harp mics made so much sense to me i rememberd seeing this vid one day..i will be checking out your web page if i need answers i will contact you via your web site,,Sgsax mate i pulled the odd vintage microphone apart and was amazed to find some not all microphones where stuffed with a wool like subsance it was the only thing holding the elements in place i meen the whole shell was stuffed completly full,,some stick mics the better Brand names Shure and others have a rubber oring between the element and shell i thinks it's only to stop the mic shorting out though,,and the Sontone or Voice of Music mics have a rubber gaskit holding the element in place and together i have 2 one Dynamic one Ceramic they both have rubber gaskits..the stick mics without gaskits are very poor quality mostly tape recorder mics..
