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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Tuning questions
Tuning questions
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snowman
613 posts
Sep 17, 2020
11:20 AM
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Hi, Ive been tuning at 442 why, I can't remember. If it isn't broken don't fix it philosophy.
I have all 12 keys with a 7 draw flat, 1/2 step. Use for blues n rock.
I have lee oscar in A Bb C D E F G untouched for playing neil young, Dylan etc, folk stuff with rack. Mostly Melodies etc.
I have golden melodys I want to r-etune for better blues chords and playing blues.
I have charts for 7 limit ----19 limit----compromise tunings for hohner, seydell, suzuki-----all at 443 minimal air pressure etc
Basically I have a lot of charts.
Forgot which tuning is best for down home blues ---What might be a problem is, I do a lot of octave splits. I don't think Im gonna worry about perfect octave sound. Been listening to Piazza and others ---their octaves vibrate, still sounds good.
So I want to re-tune for good blues chords, sweeter, bluesier b3 b5 b7 single notes etc mainly focusing on 2nd position
BASICALLY WHICH TUNING BEST FOR BLUES AT 443
tHANKS
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WinslowYerxa
1709 posts
Sep 17, 2020
12:24 PM
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Why 443?
Whether you tune to A442, 443, etc., is a highly personal matter. I find 443 is waaay too sharp for my playing style, but that 442 works just fine and gives me some room to push pitch down. So first sort that question out.
Octaves are octaves. Every tuning scheme automatically includes perfect, beat-free octaves - unless you decide the stretch the tuning by tuning the high notes sharp, which is a bogus idea when applied to harmonica. That concept originated in piano tuning, to address physical problems that are unique to the piano.
In second position, your flat 3 and 5 are bends, so tuning isn't a concern. Rather, your bending technique is what matters.
The classic blues sound of the 1950s and earlier is based on 7-limit just at A440. Tune to that and you'll be right in there with the Chicago greats. But you may sound a bit flat to the band, and your Draw 5 (and 9) will sound really flat as a melody note, especially in first position melodies.
The only significant difference with 19-limit just in this context is the sound of Draw 5 and 9. And basically the answer is to tune that note close to equal temperament.
For more detail on this summary, check out what Pat Missin has to say about this stuf at patmissin.com
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snowman
614 posts
Sep 18, 2020
9:44 AM
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thanks Winslow,
I met u at spah. All these years I thought u were British, "Winslow".
Any way thanks for taking time.
-29 on 5 n 9 draw wow thats is really flat.
If I tune one harp to 7 limit at 440 and compromise on 5 n 9 draw to say -10, would that work or sound weird.
Im presently using [Zajac chart] I guess its based off 440.
I've been tuning only when it sounds bad. To simplify and not think to much, I put my tuner at 442 and simply tuned, like u would a guitar. I know thats probably wrong, but it was fine for along time.
Lately I've been noticing the bluesier sound of some of my harps. When time allows I will check the + and - of hertz on these harps.
The better sounding single notes on GM and not as good sounding chords, didn't bother me for a long time.
Lately I can play a sp20 in key G using 2nd pos in C and then switch to GM same song and key, I really notice the difference. Same with my new Eastop "blues", they sound bluesier. maybe Im crazy????
Since I do most of my folky stuff in standard keys and have untouched harps for that, I want my rock n blues harps sounding blusier in general. A lot of them are GM. My Ab B Db Eb Gb are all GM.
I have manjies--crossovers--firebreath--suzuki 550--SP20--GM.
I just bought a set of Eastop blues A Bb C D E lowF G from rockin ron because I tried one, it was airtight played and sounded really good. The price of these will go up when people know about them, so I got a set now.
Haven't had time to chk + or - on theses either, but have a suspicion its NOT tuned ET. Or like a piano.
Gonna do new post asking for tuning info of all new harps and old. IE sp20 today vs past tunings
People like yrslf, Adam, T Parrot, really help a lot of us. Thanks for taking the time
Thanks again
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SuperBee
6813 posts
Sep 18, 2020
3:49 PM
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If you use 442 or 443 as the basis, and tune using 7 limit Just Intonation, the 5 and 9 draw won't sound as noticeably flat, relative to the band. You might sound a little sharp, generally though.
With 7 limit JI, the 9 blow bend can be played so flat that it is a viable alternative to the 9 draw as it sounds more "in tune" than the very flat 9 draw.
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WinslowYerxa
1712 posts
Sep 18, 2020
5:48 PM
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"If I tune one harp to 7 limit at 440 and compromise on 5 n 9 draw to say -10, would that work or sound weird. "
It's likely to sound flat to the band. That is, if you set your tuner to A440 and tune Blow 4 set to 0 and work outward from there.
At a SPAH convention a few years ago, Charlie McCoy played a concert set. A litle earlier, I had spoken with Adam Hamil, the Hohner tech who tuned Charlie's harps before the gig. Adam told me that Charlie asked for his harps to be tuned to A440, JI.
So I was curious how that tuning would work out on the stand. And to me, Charlie sounded flat to the band. Even though the bend probably tuned to A440, and even though Charlie is not a heavy breather (at least he doesn't sound that way to me), he was pushing pitch flat, and on top of that, the notes that are lowered in JI definitely sounded that way.
So, again, you need to find a pitch reference that works for you. Or, simply take the harps that seem to deliver for you the most desirable temperament, map that out with a tuner, then use that as a guide to tune other harps.
----------
Harmonica lessons with one of the world's foremost experts
Check out my blog and other goodies at winslowyerxa.com
Harmonica For Dummies, Second Edition with tons of new stuff
Last Edited by WinslowYerxa on Sep 18, 2020 5:49 PM
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Thievin' Heathen
1221 posts
Sep 18, 2020
7:45 PM
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I like to tune my harps to 442 JI, but I will leave 5 & 9 draw a little less than -29. Exact tuning on a harp is so dependent on breath speed, embouchure, temperature, moisture on the reed, etc.., that I choose to err on the sharp side.
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Gnarly
2894 posts
Sep 18, 2020
10:35 PM
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Yeah, I lean toward 443 for diatonics, the tendency is to work the reed, so a little sharp is better than not.
I think flat is perceived as "low energy", and sharp as edgy.
Last Edited by Gnarly on Sep 19, 2020 12:04 PM
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