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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Fender 65 Princeton Reverb Reissue
Fender 65 Princeton Reverb Reissue
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jpmcbride
240 posts
Jul 03, 2020
12:43 PM
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I've been looking for a mid-size amp to replace my Fender Pro Jr. Looking for all tube, built-in reverb, and lots of low end. I was never satisfied with the Pro Jr. It did the job but was always too bright and brash for me, even with circuit mods.
The Fender 65 Princeton Reverb Reissue was suggested in a previous thread, and after some research I picked one up. I'm not going to call this a review, just a description of my experience with it and how its working for me.
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Jim McBride
Bottle 'O Blues microphones
www.bottleoblues.com
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jpmcbride
241 posts
Jul 03, 2020
1:01 PM
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The Fender 65 Princeton Reverb Reissue is an all tube, 15W, 1x10, with spring reverb. They go for about $1000 new and less on the used market.
To my ears its a little bright. It sounds best with the treble all the way down, and the bass all the way up. With the EQ like this, its not bad. I'll reserve final judgement until I play with the band. Sometimes what sounds too bright solo, is perfect with the full band.
I use a Lone Wolf Harp Delay V2 and that helps with the brightness. The pedal takes some of the edge off. I don't know if this is inherent in all analog delays (i.e. does the delay muddy things slightly and reduce the bright edge), or is this just something specific to the Lone Wolf Delay? In any case, it helps, and I like it.
The reverb is too much! Fender what are you thinking? I guess guitar players can use a lot more. I put it on 2 and that's plenty.
The stock speaker is pretty good, no complaints. But I had a Weber Alnico 10A125-O with the H cone, so I changed it. With the Weber it breaks up at lower volume.
I replaced the first 12AX7 preamp tube with a Groove Tubes long plate 12AT7. It sounded great and reduced feedback significantly. If you have a hot mic, this is a must. By hot mic, I mean any typical CM or similar element.
BUT ... I don't use hot mics. Not so many people agree with me on this, but my experience is that a weaker mic sounds much better. You can drive the amp a lot harder without feedback and get better tone and overall volume before feedback. I use two mics mostly:
(1) Astatic 335H. This has a relatively low output, and tends to kill some of the highs. This is my favorite mic!
(2) Brown Biscuit with Shure CM element. But, I divide the signal in half with two 100K resistors inside the mic, and put a 1000pf cap across the lower resistor to roll off some of the highs.
Because I don't use hot mics, I put the original 12AX7 back in the amp and it works great. I can get all kinds of volume without feedback with both mics.
With my mics, the Lone Wolf Delay, the Weber speaker, and the knobs as I described, its a damn fine harp amp! I can get some great tones out of it. And its loud without feedback. Its a big improvement over the Pro Jr.
Its light and easy to carry, and loud enough for most situations. I really like this amp.
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Jim McBride
Bottle 'O Blues microphones
www.bottleoblues.com
Last Edited by jpmcbride on Jul 03, 2020 1:05 PM
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jpmcbride
242 posts
Jul 03, 2020
1:19 PM
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Something I didn't mention in my prior post because it has nothing to do with the amp as purchased, is that I added a DIY power attenuator (power soak) to it. I made it my self and was previously using it in the Pro Jr, so I moved it to the Princeton.
In case someone doesn't know what it is, the attenuator uses resistors to absorb some of the power that would normally go to the speaker. Its arranged so that the amp always sees 8 ohms as it expects, but only part of that is going to the speaker, the rest is being absorbed by resistors. This allows you to crank the amp and get power tube distortion at a lower volume.
Commercial units can be expensive. They usually use a variable resistor called an L-Pad that allows you to continuously vary the amount of power that goes to the speaker while always maintaining the rated impedance to the amp (8 ohms in my case). Mine is simpler than that. I only have two positions, 15W and 7.5W. It consists of a few power resistors,a heat sink, a toggle switch, and a couple 1/4" jacks. Normally the speaker is plugged into the amp with a cable and jack. You simply plug this little attenuator in between the speaker and amp. Obviously you need another small cable to do this.
It works great and lets me crank the amp at lower volume when I want that.
If anyone is interested, let me know and I'll post a pic and schematic of the attenuator.
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Jim McBride
Bottle 'O Blues microphones
www.bottleoblues.com
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SuperBee
6742 posts
Jul 03, 2020
4:59 PM
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I haven’t tried a 65 RI, or any PR aside from my own which is ‘78 Silverface.
I’ve wondered how much difference there is, because I’ve read quite a few really good reviews of the 65PRRI as a harp amp.
I love my 78SFPR (I love all these acronyms too) but it wasn’t marriage at first sight.
For years I ran the bass up full and treble wound right back, as you describe with the RI
I also swapped the speaker for a Weber 10A125-O, which I recall made a significant difference.
Honestly, I don’t remember the preamp tube configuration I’m using. I’d have to look, and I remember I had to look some other time and was surprised to find what I’d done.
I looked.
I’ve swapped the Phase Inverter (V4) for a modern 12AY7,
I have a 12AT7 in V1. This is a very old tube, probably from a 60s TV or PA
V2 is a 12AU7, and V3 is a 12AX7
My power tubes have not changed in at least 10 years ie since I’ve owned it. They may even be original. They are fender-branded and made in USA.
Mine doesn’t have original PT though. It has been replaced with a 240volt primary unit from Mojotone.
I also found the reverb was very strong and actually didn’t sound good. I expect that’s why I have a 12AU7 in V2 and from memory my reverb is a bit tamer. It’s been over 3 months since I’ve used it so some details are not fresh in memory.
Anyway, your description of first impressions with the 65 reissue felt quite familiar to me. With the changes I’ve made and I suppose the progress I’ve made in playing over the time I’ve owned it, I am now very comfortable with the amp and I’d go so far to say it will be a problem for the executor of my estate to think about. Not one I’ll think about selling while I’m still this side of the dirt.
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jpmcbride
243 posts
Jul 03, 2020
5:03 PM
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@superbee
I've done a lot of amp mods and tube swaps but have never messed with a spring reverb and know nothing about them.
I take it from your description that the reverb tank has its own tube? And if I change it to a lower gain tube it will tame the reverb somewhat? I have a 12AU7 ready to go if that's the case!
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Jim McBride
Bottle 'O Blues microphones
www.bottleoblues.com
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jpmcbride
244 posts
Jul 03, 2020
5:19 PM
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Did a little research and looked at the schematic and there is a tube to drive the reverb tank, and one to amplify the return from the tank.
I would think that the best place to tame the reverb would be on the return side. You want plenty of drive on the input side to make sure the springs vibrate well. But want to cut back on how much you get on the return side. Right now its really sensitive ... reverb at 2.0 is good, but 2.5 is too much.
The problem is that only half of the V3 tube is used on the reverb return side. The other half of V3 is in the preamp. So reducing the gain on the reverb ends up reducing the overall gain too.
Has anyone swapped reverb tubes? Did you do it on the send or return side?
I guess the only way is to try it :-)
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SuperBee
6744 posts
Jul 03, 2020
5:32 PM
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Jim, v2 is the Reverb driver and stock is a 12AT7. I think I went to 12AU7 as it is similar internal resistance but lower amplification. As noted the Reverb is very strong so there is plenty of scope to just keep turning it up. 12AU7 is quite a lot lower amplification factor than a 12AT7 but seems ok to me. I think I read about this swap, I don’t think it was an original thought. Even guitarists sometimes find the Reverb is OTT.
I think I used to run a 12 AT7 in V4 but must have decided the 12 AY7 was a better option as it is more similar to the stock tube.
I’d encourage you to try the swap in V2 and see what you think. I like what it did for me.
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SuperBee
6745 posts
Jul 03, 2020
5:35 PM
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Just saw we crossed posts. Your observation about the mixed use of v3 is why I have not changed it. Also, the observation about v2 is exactly the reason for the reduction in that location. There’s too much drive on the input side, making the springs vibrate with too much splash.
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jpmcbride
245 posts
Jul 03, 2020
6:21 PM
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I tried 12AT7 in V3 and it reduced overall gain too much.
I tried 12AU7 in V2 and it made a little difference in the reverb, Now I can go up to about 3. I left this in but the reverb is still way OTT.
Maybe I could swap the springs, or replace the tank completely. Or maybe I can just not worry about it and set it to 2 and let it go :-)
Another observation about this amp is that the volume control is not very linear. It goes from not loud to really loud between 4 and 5. But that's not uncommon in tube amps.
I still really like this amp. I can't wait to get it out with the band to see how it works live.
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Jim McBride
Bottle 'O Blues microphones
www.bottleoblues.com
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SuperBee
6746 posts
Jul 03, 2020
6:48 PM
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I think I run the reverb at something around 2, maybe. Also noted you are using lower output mics, where I am on pretty hot mics, thus my lower gain 1st preamp and PI
Also of course, mine is a completely different unit to yours so no doubt a difference in reverb unit.
My 78 is the dreaded ‘pull-boost’ model. I never use that feature, but in any case I think the later SF amps are held in lower esteem for generally inferior production values. It’s 42 years old, so I think doing ok.
Last Edited by SuperBee on Jul 03, 2020 6:53 PM
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jpmcbride
246 posts
Jul 03, 2020
7:21 PM
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42 years and still going, not bad.
If mine goes that long, someone else will be playing it!
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