Does anyone have input on owning an original and/or doing an amp build on the 5E7 Fender Tweed Bandmaster? I have been gathering parts. I am especially interested in things someone may have tried as small circuit tweaks that improved for harp. I am not a tech so, it would need to be something I could pass on to builder. I am looking for a mid-sized amp. In the past I have owned three Fender Tweed Pros (1958, '57, '54) and a Victoria Pro (came from Rod's guitarist Henry C in trade for a Bassman relpica I had). The Pros were great but, the originals are getting high dollar. I have an all original 1959 Bassman as my main amp. Also, a Custom 1959 Bassman replica built by Sonny Jr. It has a Triad 45249 Output Trans. 1959 Schumacher Choke, all NOS PIO Astron caps, and a set of Jensen P10R speakers from and original Bassman- the speakers I actually sent to Gary in 2004 from a 1959 Bassman I had, where I put in P10Qs in the one I had at the time. Also, for Bandmaster- I am aware of Gary Primach using one, Jimmie Lee in Austin also. I knew someone in New York who had two but, he did say he also missed his 1960 Bassman with P10Qs he sold but, for all-around loved the 5E7 bandmasters. If anyone has experience gigging with a 3 x 10" Bandmaster, that would be appreciated also. I have played a 100% ($10,000) original in Austin but, not in a setting with band. I am just looking for something one size down from Bassman. I have owned about 7-8 Original Bassmans, 5-6 replicas, Concerts, Super Reverbs, etc. and on the smaller Size Fender Tweed Deluxes, Sonny Jr #1, Cruncher too. I am very interested to hear if someone has gigged with a Cruncher and Bandmaster. For parts, I have a 1959 Triad Choke, 3 Output transformers that are 2.7 ohm from original Crunchers, 3x10 cabiter, PIO NOS Astron caps (not filter caps yet) so, any recommendations for chassis, control pots, Power T, resistors would be welcome. I have heard Mojo over Weber? For what it's worth, I generally like a cleaner tone of Fender Tweeds. The Bassmans do everything I need, especially when they can be turned up some but, I do often play in quieter settings and something a bit lighter would be nice. Thanks for any help.
p.s. Also, have both 1959 Jensen P10R or P10Qs. If it ends up too much I may just find an already build replica and put in the Vintage Jensens and NOS tubes. Recently moved to San Diego from Austin, Bassman was fine in Austin but, several of the sideman gigs I started getting here in SD (prior to quarantine) a mid-sized amp would have worked fine on and not have to bring out the Bassman. Thanks again for any input someone may have.
Marsh is the way to go for the 5E7 build kit. I have played through Carlos Colina's Sonny Jr Bandmaster-Gary was building those and doing the Bassman mods around the same time. That was a killer amp for club gigs.
Thank you so much for the Carlos & 5E7 referral to Marsh. I had one of those first ReIssue Bassman that Gary did, it was 2000-2001. I had the SJ2 Prototype '98, the SJ1 '99/2000 then the ReIssue for a year or two. I have live recordings with it, the one I put up of my "Latin Moon" was that amp, outdoors and I had a 1959 Tweed Deluxe with it, although I believe the Bassman is what is heard on the recording (it's unmixed right off the sound board). After I played Mark Hummel's '59 then I was able to find a '58 that Rod Piazza re-tweeded (he used to do that and sell them out of his house many years ago). I must have missed the Bandmaster with Gary (I usually would try anything he was coming up with and if you ever heard him playing that Blue Harmony it came from me) but, I found a 1959 Pro and was loving it. He said he tried building two of them and did not care for them as well as other amps. We also bought a 1960 Concert together and I go the speakers, he took the OT 45249 and amp. I may actually have that OT now in my 2004 replica 5F6-A "SJ Custom #002" built with all vintage parts and 1959 P10Rs I sold him from a Bassman I had. Anyway, thank you for the Marsh referral and Carlos sounds good. I have Gary's "testing cabinet" that he had various baffles for, it's Cruncher size and he put fresh finish on it and a 3 x 10 Baffle. Thanks again.
p.s. I had not seen these Carlos Colina videos, I believe I have heard his name from Gary but, so far had only been able to find some Gary Primach and of course the "Harpsuker" bandmaster samples. I am alos interested if anyone has played in real band situation a Bandmaster and either Bassman (as next step up) and/or Cruncher (equal volume). I have played an original 5E7 at Austin Vintage Guitar but, as well all know, hearing in a shop does not always equal stage.
For those unaware, a 5E7 Bandmaster is not a bassman with three speakers and a different OT. Circuit is more a Pro, Twin.
5E7 options: Presence control tone circuit, switchable cathode/fixed bias, switchable from 6L6 to 6V6 power tubes. Bias pot.
Also, the abilityility to run at least two different rectifiers. Like a GZ34 and 5U4
I can run a 5U4, GZ34, 5AR4 or 5Y3 in my Masco ME-27, crazy good!
These and many more are mods I have incorporated into my personal amps over the past twenty years. Now it's common.
Last Edited by Harpaholic on Jun 16, 2020 11:42 AM
My understanding is the "Narrow Panel" (approx. 1956-1959) of the Fender Tweed Amps- the "Pro-Amp" (5E5-A), the "Super" (5F4) and the Bandmaster (5E7) are very, very close to being the same amp BUT, the speaker configurations vary Pro = single 15" (P15N), Super 2 x10" (P10Rs) and Bandmaster 3 x 10". That also means the Output Transformer on the Pro is an 8 ohm. whereas the Output Transformers on the Super and Bandmaster are 4 ohm. A match for the pair of speakers on the Super but a mis-match on the Bandmaster. For the 3- 10" 8 ohm speakers, it would be a 2.67 ohm Transformer. Example, the Sonny Jr. Crincher has a 12" and 2- 8" and he had custom would 2.7 ohm Transformers made....these are what I have and plan to use for Bandmaster. I am NOT an amp tech but, this is how I understand it. I believe their tube line-up is the same also 12AY7, 12AX7, 2 x 5881 (power tubes, 5U4 rectifier, all with that cathode bias (different than a Bassman) as Harpaholic said....he obviously knows more than me about this.
Hi, for @ Harpaholic- Thank you, the Masco sounds versatile and cool. I had seen a few techs say that the feature of adding the ability to switch from cathode bias (stock) to fixed bias (would that be like a 5F6-A Bassman with what they call "Long Tailed Phase inverter"?) is nice to have. I am sure I would stay with just 5881's but, ability to go GZ34 to 5U4 might be nice. I used to do that with Sonny Jr#1 but, in my Bassmans run GZ34's. I cannot work on amps so, would need tech help but, that is the type of interest I have, if anyone has found anything simple that improved their 5E7 Bandmaster for stage use. I keep things simple, in terms of pedals, usually straight in and bridge channels. Sometimes a delay on dry room. I do have a Kinder Anti-Feedback but, have not used it yet. Otherwise I switch mics from R-7/MC-151's to PE585 or PE54's when needed. Thanks for the feedback and suggestions.
Yep the Super too!. Fyi, I was referring to the low power twin for comparison. So yeah, the four amps have virtually the same circuit Speakers and transformers being the main differences.
Not really a mismatch, is it? The bandmasters OT were wound for 2.7 ohms, right?
One thing I forgot to mention that I do to all of my amps is modding the inputs. One for guitar, one for CM's/ dynamic elements and a 5 K for crystals if three or more inputs. This would be a priority for me!!
Are you going with the 5E7 or 5E7M? Hopefully the former.
Last Edited by Harpaholic on Jun 16, 2020 11:59 AM
Thanks @Harpaholic for the input. My understanding is the Tweed Super and Bandmaster have 4 ohm OT. The Bandmaster is actually a mismatch but, some say that 4 ohm OT with the 2.7 ohm speaker load is part of it's unique tone. Fortunately, I have three of the Sonny Jr Cruncher OT's, those are custom wound for Gary at 2.7 ohms, since Cruncher has 3 speakers also. However, I just read that Mark Baier at Victoria amps said they get equal requests on Bandmasters for using a 2 ohm OT, like a 4x10 Tweed Bassman. I am actually considering that route since I have a Triad 45249 original Tweed Bassman OT. The only input Independence change I have had is the 1 MEG resistor on bright channel, for crystal mics, they way Sonny JR 410's are done. I had that done on my '59 Bassman. I have just been using regular channel 1 for CM/CR when I occasionally bring one out. I am not sure what the 5E7"M" is? I was only aware of the 5E7. Is the "M" maybe what Fender did on their reissue Bandmaster, that sets it up to use the GZ34 rectifier, instead of the 5U4? I better do some research!
@tmf714, great, thank you! Ah, yes, that sounds like how the Cruncher must be done....Gary had shared (I bought a new one from him in about 2014/15) that the "Presence" was set fixed in the amp, I believe at about 5, which enabled the amp to have a middle tone control, same as Bassman but, keep it in the Super/Pro/Bandmaster smaller chassis. Sounds like you would go with a 2 ohm over the 4 ohm. I do have the 2.7 Cruncher OT but, this would give a home to my Triad 45249, I am not seeing having built another 5F6-A Bassman and I have swapped a Triad 45249 before into a Bassman replica, could hear the improvement. My best recorded tone I have (I have about 10 CDs of live music from my last band but, nothing mixed, just captured to hear back) captured was on an opening set for Bo Didley. We played a 1.5 hour set, then backed him up for about 2 hours and brought in the new year. Anyway, it was a 1958 Bassman I had with P10Rs but, there were about 900 people and could play at max volume and really let it sing. I stood at front of stage once at a Blues Festival I had played at night before and Curtis Salgado was Saturday night. He had his Bassman full volume, sounded great. I am hoping this Bandmaster will fill that mid-sized spot. In Austin many venues had sound people and mid-sized amps that were mic'd seemed to be a better fit, same here now in San Diego. Thanks again
