tingtang
14 posts
Jun 09, 2020
8:16 AM
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Hi all
I've been playing for around 3 years or so and I've been thinking about what are the"must know" things to include in my playing. I'm not talking about specific songs particularly, but riffs, patterns, grooves etc.that can be used in various different contexts.
These are a few I've come up with off the top of my head and I'd be interested to hear what else people would add.... thanks.
1. Boogie bassline patterns
2. John Lee Hooker / On the Road Again type of groove
3. Box patterns
4. Some kind of Sonny Terry type of groove.
5. Mannish Boy type of riff
6. Shuffle chording/chugging
7. Train songs
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ridge
784 posts
Jun 09, 2020
9:45 AM
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To expand on your post, I think for #1 and #3 would be to learn those patterns and be able to play the same lines as you move through a I,IV,V. A lot of people struggle once they move past the I chord.
I'd also argue learning #1 and #3 not just in the context of 2nd position, but 3rd position and 1st position where they make sense.
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Ridge's YouTube
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tingtang
15 posts
Jun 09, 2020
10:16 AM
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Thanks ridge, all good points.
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Mirco
633 posts
Jun 10, 2020
2:36 PM
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You list looks good so far. I like how you are focused on grooves. I would suggest learning basslines on harp. Like ridge said: don't just learn the bassline on the I, but make sure you can play it on the IV and the V, too. (You'll need good bending.)
I would add the most common basslines and grooves. A walking shuffle, a box shuffle, and two beat/ train pattern are a good start. I would add a rhumba, a tramp, a Green Onions, and a slow blues. Also learn the 2-5-1 bassline that's used in swing tunes.
Groove is at the heart of everything. If you learn how to play the bassline, you can play the bassline throughout the entire song, as backing, and add tasty fills where appropriate. If you know the bassline, it can also be a good jumping off point for solos.
As always, Dave Barrett is the go to resource for this. He's got a whole series of lessons on basslines at bluesharmonica.com.
I would also recommend Jimi Lee's "Every Groove a Bluesman Needs to Know" for backing tracks. You should be comfortable playing all of those (some more common than others).
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Marc Graci
YouTube Channel
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tingtang
17 posts
Jun 11, 2020
1:26 AM
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Thanks Mirco, I do like playing boogie bassline patterns and box shuffles etc. and I'm getting better at playing them through the changes. It seems to me a good way of playing a recognisable 12 bar sequence, especially when playing alone.
I'll have a look into some of those other things you mentioned, I'm not sure what a tramp groove is to be honest, or maybe I do but just didn't know the name of it.
Thanks.
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SuperBee
6674 posts
Jun 11, 2020
2:07 AM
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Tingtang, find the song ‘Tramp’
https://youtu.be/wP7VU6AVIgc
Lots of these grooves get named for a song
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Mirco
634 posts
Jun 11, 2020
7:31 AM
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Some good discussion of the tramp groove here, as well as some improvising, by David Barrett and Gary Smith:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uyEH_Cjkgw
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Marc Graci
YouTube Channel
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kham
175 posts
Jun 11, 2020
9:27 AM
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Wow Mirco. Good call on that video with Dave and Gary. I just posted a song here with that tramp groove. A Ronnie Shellist song. (didn't ever call it tramp though) All those licks work and I love the funk feel to it. Gotta learn/steal/borrow some of those licks from Gary and Dave in particular that run at 2:49. Barrett has ridiculous chops. Thanks for posting. Good thread too tingtang.
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dougharps
2130 posts
Jun 11, 2020
10:50 AM
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Thank you for posting that clip. Outstanding playing by both...
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Doug S.
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Mirco
635 posts
Jun 11, 2020
11:19 AM
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Check this one out. It's Barrett's instrumental "Here We Go", to the tramp groove. It's just ridiculous.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqwadWJ8JUI
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Marc Graci
YouTube Channel
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tingtang
19 posts
Jun 11, 2020
2:40 PM
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Now I'm learning what the tramp groove is, I'll have to get stuck in.... thanks everyone!
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snowman
577 posts
Jun 12, 2020
12:15 PM
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I try to organize my licks, bass lines, turnarounds etc, into
Good for shuffle and or jump swing----straight 4/4--what chord is it played over etc
Then try different keys--some licks sound good on an A Bb Ab C harp etc.--- but not as good on E Eb F E
I have a turnaround folder for shuffle vs straight 4/4 etc--turnarounds are huge in blues---it can sound thoroughly typical or unique and cool---typical cool as well---but throw a different turnaround in the mix to spice it up
Kim Wilson "Lowdown" is a great example of
Rod piazza has great turnarounds-Mark Hummel
Last Edited by snowman on Jun 12, 2020 12:17 PM
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Gabriel.Harmonic
48 posts
Jun 14, 2020
9:48 PM
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I concur with what @Micro said, good to focus on grooves and bass lines. A good example is the 1956 first version of "Got My Mojo Workin'" by Muddy Waters. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aI_JFcrTooM
Little Walter opens right up and sets Groove, you cannot hear the bass too well but, he is playing the bass line. If you can get that little slick "push" and feel of what he is doing and ride that it's cool. Bass players (as always, this is just my experience) rarely play this line on bass. In my last band the bass player laid down that line and when I doubled it with harp it pushed the groove along nicely. That riff figure that Walter uses there can be played with tons of songs and you can sit back in the mix and help push the groove along. Finding places to fit into the rhythmic figures of grooves (as Micro said Bass Players, also maybe an accent the drummer is hitting, etc.) you might be surprised how many comments you receive from musicians that are positive. Many of them are weary from harp players "stepping on" everything.
Also, another example, outside of harp players, is look for riffs that other players do to help move a song along. Check out the horns (these are easy phrases in 2nd position) in the first part of "Kansas City" by Keely Smith (she was married and partner of Louie Prima (Jump Jive' n Wail) playing between her vocals. They vary the phrase but, these little phrases can be used on many tunes. Check out the opening lick in the Sax Solo too- you can tell who Little Walter listened to. I have copped that line and have opened many solos with it!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FacFCyAIy_I
One more....Check out the little riffs the horns are doing between the vocal lines on "Oo Poppa Do" by Lavay Smith and Her Red Hot Skillet Lickers" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-NpLhrpEiE
You need a low F# for 2nd position but, this song is straight "Boogie Woogie" (much of what they do is) and you can use these lines in all sort of songs. Also, the lick they are riding through the last two choruses, if you can get the feel of that phrasing, you can roll with that in all sorts of Blues Tunes you may find yourself in.
.....Food for thought. Happy Grooving.
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sonvolt13
224 posts
Jun 15, 2020
3:59 PM
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I think if you like playing at blues open mikes, knowing as many heads to songs as possible will instantly identify you as someone who is serious: Work Song, Caldonia, Walking Through the Park, Mellow Down Easy, etc.
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