I think Paul Delay recorded many tunes in 2nd (Great Round World, Why Can't You Love Me?,Rode Myself Crazy). Norton Buffalo recorded "Shuffalo" and "She's Drivin' Me Crazy". I'm pretty sure he recorded something else with Roy Rogers, but I can't remember. Musselwhite did "Catwalk". Toots Thielemans recorded "Tenor Madness" (I know it's not a "blues", but you can use the main theme and work on it). I think Winslow Yerxa cand help you better than I, but hope this help.
Please give brief description of Chromatic in 2nd Position? Sorry if I missed it else where. I have a basic understanding of playing Chrome, but not sure about 2nd position???? Also does Mitch Kasmar play in 2nd? ---------- And I Thank You !! KC Bluz Givin the devil the Bluz
Last Edited by KC69 on Jun 03, 2020 11:21 AM
2nd position chrom is just like diatonic, except there is no root on the draw plate--that is the note that is repeated on 10 hole diatonic, in C, it's the G on blow 2 and draw 3. Chromatics are tuned like holes 4-7 of a diatonic. So you should be able to easily bust your second position moves on a chromatic.
Thank you. Am I to use different keyed harmonicas, like on diatonic? Such as a Chrome in the key of "G" to play a song in the key of "D" or a Bb Chrome to play a song in "F" ---------- And I Thank You !! KC Bluz Givin the devil the Bluz
KC: The 2nd position scale (same concept as diatonic cross harp) on the chrom is +3 <-3 +4 <+4 -5 -6 +7 < is slide in. So you can get the minor pentatonic scale using the slide once or the blues using the slide twice. The root note is a blow note though which isn’t great.
Last Edited by sonvolt13 on Jun 03, 2020 4:15 PM
I mainly use a C-- and have a D for the guitar keys (E, A, D). There's more to it than that, but I don't think you need half a dozen chromatics in different keys. Some do, tho--Dougharps here does it . . .
Thanks guys! I seem to always need a little jump start for my brain to start working! Makes sense, just hadn't thought about it that way. I give it a shot... ---------- And I Thank You !! KC Bluz Givin the devil the Bluz
tonight I was watching TV, and I quite liked the theme song. I had a chromatic at hand and gave it a blow until I found some intervals that seemed close. I wasn’t thinking about anything apart from matching what I thought the tune was. Played it a few times to get familiar then worked out the notes I had G Bb C D F G
G minor pentatonic, ie second position on the C chromatic
Anyway, that was fun and quite funny that it worked out that way when I tried playing something by ear.
Last Edited by SuperBee on Jun 04, 2020 8:37 AM
I really need to get around to polishing my 2nd position chromatic playing! Maybe this is a good time? I set 2nd position chromatic aside during my initial confusion when I began to learn diatonic way back in the 70s. I never have practiced 2nd chromatic enough since then to be as good as I am in 1st, 3rd, and 4th position, or in the related button-in positions.
Regarding Gnarly mentioning that I use many keys of chromatics (I accumulated 8 keys over the years) it is really not necessary to get that many, though it is sometimes convenient.
If you are going to accompany a vocalist singing "Oh, Darling" in Bb once or twice a year, you could use a number of different keys of chromatic, but a Bb chromatic makes it simple to play in 1st without any rehearsal. Gnarly would most likely use a Bebop C for this.
I started down the multiple key path when I was invited to be the 4th member, joining a 3 piece jazz group around the change of millennia. The band was playing in difficult keys that challenged my chromatic chops and were not amenable to diatonic. I used both diatonic and chromatic in that band, but many songs navigated chord changes that were tough on diatonic. I had not even heard of overblows at that time, and had started fooling with chromatic as a kid, so chromatic was my way to navigate those changes.
As the new 4th member of the band I was meant to be primarily a soloist, and I needed to step up quickly. I learned to play button in to access some of the keys, but still, some were very difficult and awkward for me. I am more of a position player than pure chromatic player and improvisation requires the ability to play in the moment.
At that time Hering chromatics and replacement combos were relatively cheap from Farrell's. Also, I had heard that some West Coast style players used different keys of chromatic.
I had a decent paying day job, so my meager music earnings would be taxed heavily unless I used the income for music business expenses that could be written off. Different keys of chromatic made some songs more accessible for me to improvise, so I gradually invested music earnings in other keys of chromatic. It would have taken a long time to build the skill to improvise in those keys all on a C.
I often just take a C and D chromatic when traveling light, but my full gig case has 8 keys of 12 hole and a 16 hole chromatic. I play C and D chromatics more than other keys, though I sometimes use a G chromatic to play blues in G and minor-ish blues in A and E. The D chromatic in 4th position lets me easily play along with soul songs in Bm.
Here is a G chromatic played in 4th over a blues in E. I think 4th on chromatic is under utilized. Though I comped throughout the song, I have it cued up to the solo. I posted this song back a while. The music was recorded at a live duo gig in 2017. The video is my cat being fascinated by a squirrel.
EDIT: In case you didn't read my novel above, this is in
FOURTH (4th), NOT second position!!!
If you only have a C chromatic, here is one in 4th in A:
EDIT: In case you didn't read my novel above, this is in
FOURTH (4th), NOT second position!!!
----------
Doug S.
Last Edited by dougharps on Jun 05, 2020 6:54 AM
@Diggs You certainly do your own wailing on diatonic and chromatic! Your ability playing chromatic is outstanding!
To all readers, I apologize for promoting 4th position in a thread about 2nd. After responding to the OP I responded to the multiple key comment and then got carried away... I like 4th and few blues players seem to use it. I should have started a new thread.
Sorry if I caused anyone confusion. My videos above are in 4th position. ----------
Doug S.
Last Edited by dougharps on Jun 05, 2020 7:00 AM
@Doug forth position for me lays very nicely on the Chromatic. (Relative minor of 1st.) This is in 4th position. ----------
Last Edited by Diggsblues on Jun 05, 2020 1:55 PM
Talk of "positions" on chromatics and nobody bats an eye... priceless. I have keys of C and D and as long as other keys than C are made and used, the notion of positions makes perfect sense. I too have been working on second position lately, because I figure I already know the breath pattern from blues harps. Again it just makes sense to me.
Last Edited by mr_so&so on Jun 05, 2020 1:58 PM
Sonny Boy Williamson recorded a couple of songs at Chess using chromatic in second position. I guess he was looking for a different sound, but the chromatic didn't add much, in my view.
Sonny Boy Williamson recorded a couple of songs at Chess using chromatic in second position. I guess he was looking for a different sound, but the chromatic didn't add much, in my view.
I don't remember of any song that SBW recorded with chromatic. I think he recorded with the Koch (that's tuned like a standard 10 hole diatonic), but none with chromatic.
That’s interesting re SBW2 and the Koch use. I’ve wondered whether it was about the harp, and exploiting the opportunity to use the slide flutter, or whether they just really wanted to play in Ab for some reason and the Koch with the slide held in was the way to achieve that (since Db diatonic was not available at that time)
RH, that’s weird because Dave Barrett tabs it out as 2nd and it works perfectly with all the slide action that’s needed and tonally it sounds right. But I’ve also seen a video on YouTube where Clarke is playing the song live and he is clearly using a 12 hole which is unlikely to be a C (wouldn’t he just use his 280 in that case?). So my guess is that Barrett got all the notes right tabbing it in second but maybe Clarke did use the F on the recording, so you are probably right.
Last Edited by sonvolt13 on Jun 08, 2020 5:29 PM
I did ask Dennis G about Bill's "It's Been a Long Time" after my initial post on this forum-he assures me it 's an F chromatic in third-the transcription is incorect.
