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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Lockdown projects
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SuperBee
6653 posts
May 27, 2020
6:29 PM
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Since everything is uncertain and all my gigs are cancelled and who knows if I’ll even have a band to chase gigs with, my practice/learning “habits” (such as they are ie good and not so good) are quite disrupted.
With no strong imperative to continue learning songs and honing sets for the band, I have found my interest in chromatic has reasserted, as it was before I was enlisted in the band.
One nice thing about this is that I’ve grown as a player over the last 4 years of working in a band and acquiring repertoire albeit mainly focused on diatonic and Chicago style playing. In particular though, perhaps the last year where I’ve been working on adding a couple numbers using chromatic has really helped lift my chromatic playing to a level somewhat better prepared than I was 4 years ago, even though I’ve only been playing 3rd position stuff.
It’s small beans, but over the last couple of months I’ve been learning a few melodies and jazz standard ‘heads’, and rediscovered how much I enjoy it.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not very good at it! But I’m enjoying it, enjoying trying to play better, the added element of coordination, the satisfaction of access to all chromatic notes and shift of focus. I can feel it doing my brain ‘good’. And especially I just enjoy playing these tunes. There’s nothing groundbreaking in creative terms but this week I’ve been using Will Galison’s book of Jazz Standards to learn Autumn Leaves and Will’s approach has challenged me to lift. This is exciting, to me.
I am on the verge of breaking out Max deAloe’s method book and getting back to work on learning to read.
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dougharps
2123 posts
May 27, 2020
8:00 PM
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There is a lot of good chromatic information on Slidemeister. Just don't expect that blues is accepted, and don't react if blues is dissed by some.
Do not post music that even has an album cover that shows a diatonic, even if the music is chromatic. Don't even go there...
But if you want info about chromatic harmonicas, chromatic repair, choosing which enharmonic note to play in a phrase, or playing jazz, show tunes, or classical music on chromatic harmonica, there are a lot of good players posting there who can answer questions.
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Doug S.
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Gnarly
2812 posts
May 27, 2020
8:39 PM
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The Galison book is great, the CD alone is worth the price.
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SuperBee
6655 posts
May 28, 2020
12:43 AM
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Doug, i have read plenty of slidemeister threads over the years, i may have requested membership once, but if i did id be on the banned list now as im certain ive never posted there.
for a place with such strict rules, there seem to be a surprisingly large number of threads which descend into drivel.
Gnarly, i completely agree about the CD in Will Galison's book. The backing tracks are excellent too, but i really enjoy Will's approach to these songs.
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Fil
471 posts
May 28, 2020
2:53 PM
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Doug and/or SuperBee, what’s a decent first chromatic and best first key?
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Phil Pennington
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Gnarly
2814 posts
May 28, 2020
2:59 PM
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I mean Will’s performances on the disc, suitable for listening for folks who might not even think they like to listen to harmonica.
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SuperBee
6658 posts
May 28, 2020
4:23 PM
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Hi, Fil, a C chromatic is the way to go for a start. In a 64 reed instrument there's not really a choice for key. Even more than with diatonic, the instruction is made with a C in mind.
i am playing mainly CX12s but the
Suzuki SCX 48 is highly recommended by wise people.
The Easttop EAP12 could be the value option https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000050139420.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.5.26d81f604m5ZJH
Gnarly, we agree
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Fil
472 posts
May 29, 2020
5:52 AM
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Thanks. I think I'll give it a try.
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Phil Pennington
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jbone
3218 posts
May 29, 2020
6:54 AM
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I may not be wise necessarily but I know the SCX48 is a very good playing instrument.
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Music and travel destroy prejudice.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1109912442677135/?ref=bookmarks
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dougharps
2124 posts
May 29, 2020
7:11 AM
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Fil, regarding chromatics:
C chromatic is standard for chromatic lessons. You could do the same lessons on any key chromatic, but when you played you would be in a different key, so no backing tracks. I would suggest starting with a C and maybe later considering at least one other key that would make it easier to play in difficult keys. For 16 hole chromatics, it is rare to find a different key than C.
^^^^^^
There are a lot of good chromatics available today, and I have not tried them all, so I can't give a comprehensive review.
^^^^^^
In the 1960s I started playing Hohner 270s, which have a wood comb and are a pain to work on due to the reed plates being nailed. They do have a nice tone and for a long time were the standard though often adjusted and modded. I haven't tried a 270 Deluxe which replaced the nails with screws.
One drawback when playing a 270 with pursed lips (in my mustached opinion) is that the mouthpiece is really flat and close to the slide, and that can snag facial hairs. Some say it improves tone... I don't know about that.
When Hering 48 reed chromatics came on the market from Farrell's at a quite reasonable price I started playing them in various keys to keep up with the band I was in playing in obscure keys.
Herings have a different trapezoidal round hole mouthpiece I like a lot, that leaves more space from the slide. They are assembled with screws to an ABS comb so you can take them apart. They have the same flatter profile as 270s, which I have come to appreciate after incorporating more tongue blocked octave and chord playing with lip pursing.
The downside to Herings are that the brass in the reeds doesn't hold up as well as the Hohner reeds and they go flat more easily. You used to be able to buy "combos" which were plates mounted on combs. You just swapped covers and the mouthpiece for a "new" chromatic. Hering provided little or no support in the USA. I have a number of combos in different keys on hand from a clearance sale, but when they are gone I will move to other brands if needed. I also still have a C Hering 6164 and a replacement combo.
A couple years ago I ran out of 48 reed Hering 12 hole combos in C so I picked up a C Caberet from Danny G. at New Harmonica. Caberet is an EastTop build to Danny's specs and plays really well. It is a bargain. A year later I bought another.
I have heard good things about Suzuki and Seydel models, but since I still have 270s and Herings I haven't bought them. Prices vary, but some are quite expensive.
I would suggest starting with VALVED chromatics with windsavers, not valveless, despite the intermittent problems with sticking valves. Sticking is less frequent if you warm the harmonica before playing. It is caused by condensed breath moisture under the valve on the reed plate. Valveless chromatics are more airy and will not teach you how to build tone with back pressure on a chromatic as will a valved instrument.
Another chromatic design characteristic is straight tuned vs. cross tuned. 270s and Hering 12 and 16 hole are straight tuned. This is about whether the notes of the major scale are in line across the top plate or whether the scale notes alternate from top to bottom plates as you move along the line of holes. You can see this by looking in the front of the mouthpiece at the slide holes.
Both layouts play well so far as I am able to tell. (Chrometta cross tuned has a LONG throw and for many reasons Chrometta is not my first choice.) When you work on a cross tuned chromatic you should check twice and be SURE you have the correct reed or valve before working on it!
The final issue to consider is the profile of the harmonica. 270s and Herings are relatively thin top to bottom. Some chromatics are thicker than others. If you play lip pursed, any chromatic top to bottom thickness should be fine, since you are not sticking it deeply into your mouth. I find that thicker chromatics such as the Caberet are really a mouthful when tongue blocking and make my jaw hurt after long passages. Lip pursed I love the cross tuned Caberet. It could be my personal embouchure problem from how I learned tongue blocked chromatic, but on a thick chromatic it IS an issue for me. I know that the CX-12 is thicker than a 270 or Hering, and other brands/models may be as well.
The mouthpiece shape is something to consider in addition to the thickness. Lip pursed I do OK with the flat(except for mustache hairs), the trapezoidal, and the half moon shaped mouthpiece. I don't care for the Chrometta plastic big hole mouthpiece. The half moon on the Caberet is fine, but if I use a deep embouchure the thickness of the covers is a problem for my jaw.
Good luck!
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Doug S.
Last Edited by dougharps on May 29, 2020 9:38 AM
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Fil
473 posts
May 30, 2020
1:50 PM
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JBone, thanks for the recommendation. And Doug and SuperBee, thanks very much for the effort you put into your responses. I gotta get serious now.
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Phil Pennington
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jbone
3221 posts
May 30, 2020
7:29 PM
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Fil, to your initial question, I have two SCX chromatics, one in G and one in low D. I have had Hohner Chrometta 8 and 12 as well. These were lower line builds but both served well. I actually used a Chrometta 12 as my first actual gigging chromatic. My hard playing habits at the time killed a reed.
I have an old Hering 5148 bari C and also a Hohner ChromonicaII in middle C. Both of them are with the SCX's in my gig case.
I'd suggest that whatever you get you start with a middle C. Just like with a lot of diatonic teaching materials a C is most commonly used.
I am not a full fledged chromatic player. I don't take advantage of the slide and this excludes me from the benefit of the half notes there. I do use the low D chromatic with the slide in to get Eb on one song we do. I was inspired by guys like Little Walter, James Cotton, and Carey Bell, late on William Clarke informed my efforts.
Just a bit more info to help your decision process!
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Music and travel destroy prejudice.
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Reverbnation
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John M G
365 posts
May 30, 2020
7:31 PM
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I am by no means as advanced a chromatic player as Doug, Super Bee or others on the forum.
I started out a bit more seriously on chromatic about 3-4 years ago.
In that time I've added quite a few chromatic harmonicas to my kit.
I have a collection of CX-12's and really like them. I don't think I've ever had a valve problem with them. They are one of the louder chromatics. They have a very comfortable mouthpiece. Very easy to work on. I wound up with an A, D, G, C, F and a Bb
However, to play some of the classic chromatic blues pieces you'll soon find you need a 16 hole instrument. At least I did.
I Picked up over time the following 16 hole instruments.
A Hohner Super 64, a pair of Super 64X and finally an Easttop 16-64.
Valve or windsaver problems can be an issue and I remember reading somewhere, if you are going to become a chromatic harp player it's a big help to become a chromatic harp mechanic!
Of all the 16 hole chromatics I have the Easttop in my opinion has the best valves.
I didn't do that much playing on the Super 64, but both 64X's have poppy or farty valves.
The Easttop has been much much better, though even this is getting a bit poppy valve on the E on blow hole 2.
It is a slightly quieter instrument in comparison to the Hohner instruments but I love mine and would highly recommend one as a first 16 hole instrument. I bought mine through AliExpress at a price of around US $110 but think they're now around the $135 mark.
Cheers John
Last Edited by John M G on May 30, 2020 7:35 PM
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SuperBee
6662 posts
May 30, 2020
8:32 PM
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Yeah of course for Australians almost every thing is steadily getting more expensive as our $ falls. We get about 13% less value now than 2 years ago.
I have that modern Super64 of course, which is quite nice. It’s a bit slow on the Eb of the second octave, which is likely just a gap adjustment required. Haven’t gone there yet.
I have 2 very old 64 reed Hohners. 1 is a 64Chromonica, the other a Chromonika III. Both are the straight tuned, wooden body original type in the wooden box.
The American market unit is in excellent condition except for one fairly major problem; it’s split through chamber 4. Apart from that it’s great.
The European version is not so good. Very worn and will take a lot to restore. I’d still like to, because I like to have a spare, and I’m not really interested in accumulating stuff that isn’t at least useable. But the 64 Chromonica is the priority.
On the long slots it’s been fitted with some windsavers unlike any other I’ve seen. They are cupped, presumably to provide clearance and prevent the reed hitting them.
I’ve seen John Cook’s video in which he restored one of these. John is a toolmaker and has a very good clamping jig he built for repairing these unobtainable wooden bodies. I’m wondering whether I need to build something similar before attempting to rejoin the pieces of this one.
Last Edited by SuperBee on May 30, 2020 10:28 PM
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Gnarly
2815 posts
May 30, 2020
10:11 PM
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I wanna be John Cook when I grow up.
Or Wally Peterman.
Both tool makers.
Incidentally, Mike Easton is becoming a tool maker, as he advances in his duties creating the Vern Smith (and for a time, Chris Reynolds) Hands Free Chromatic Harmonica. They are back in production, and Mike probably has some for sale, owing to being laid off as a dental technician.
Being able to make your own tools is really useful for something as esoteric as harmonica repair, refurbishment and customization.
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