SuperBee
6521 posts
Mar 01, 2020
3:42 AM
|
I suppose one way to get into it is to get a 16 holer and copy what’s on favorite records.
Is there a better way? Is it necessary to have a 16 hole?
|
jbone
3140 posts
Mar 01, 2020
4:15 AM
|
I use 12 hole. Economics. 3rd position is where I usually am.
----------
Music and travel destroy prejudice.
Reverbnation
Facebook
|
dougharps
2078 posts
Mar 01, 2020
5:51 AM
|
Since I use keyed chromatics and can play and improvise in several keys on each, I choose the key of instrument so a song will lay best and allow me to improvise.
Different keys of 16 hole aren't readily available and if they were would cost too much. I mainly use 12 hole. It took years and considerable gig money to get the different keys of chromatic I have.
That being said, if you play in octaves a 3 octave 12 hole offers a 2 octave range and a 4 octave 16 hole gives you 3 octaves to use.
----------
Doug S.
|
jbone
3141 posts
Mar 01, 2020
6:21 PM
|
I currently have in my kit: an old Hering 5148 Bari in C, a fairly vintage Hohner Chromonica II in C, and 2 Suzuki SCX48's, one in G and one in D, low register.
All have a place in at least a couple of songs and I use them not just in 3rd but also 1st position depending on song. We do some pretty much roots rock that allows for good work in 1st. I recently realized that, with the button in on the D, I have an Eb chromatic as well, which works nice on one F song I wrote and we recorded some years ago.
----------
Music and travel destroy prejudice.
Reverbnation
Facebook
|
SuperBee
6523 posts
Mar 02, 2020
12:05 AM
|
I have quite a few 12 holers, but all in C. 3 CX12s and a couple 270s. Also another 270 waiting for me to restore it, and a 260 waiting for me to fit the new comb. Those are both PreWar jobs, the 270 is a bit of wreck but the 260 looks very good, possibly restored once already but the comb was broken.
I also have a pair of 64s, both in need of a rebuild. One is a really good prospect, the other is more worn out and will need the mouthpiece replated to be playable, in addition to all the other work.
I’d like a 16 but I don’t know how long it’ll be before I can do the restoration, and farming out the job is kinda contrary to my schtick.
And I’m not really clear how to proceed with playing. In the short term it makes sense to look at the Chicago style players, but longer term I think I’m keen to branch into different styles
|
LFLISBOA
66 posts
Mar 02, 2020
9:05 AM
|
It seems that any of you chroms are readly playable, so you'll need to invest some money on a new one. I'd recommend a cheap 16 hole chrom for Chicago style, and you'll be covered 95%. Some players like Rod Piazza and the late William Clarke also played Bb 12 hole, and Paul Delay played even some other keys. If you want to play 12 holes, check Lynwood Slim recordings, because he favored 12 holes chrom.
|
SuperBee
6524 posts
Mar 02, 2020
11:32 AM
|
Yeah, I have 5 playable 12 holers. They’re all in C.
I just listed the other projects in a spirit of crapping on about it.
I’m wondering whether a 16 is really required.
I’ve been playing the CX12s rather than the 270s mainly because a CX12 is easier to maintain
Like Doug says about the splits though, I’m wondering how much I’m missing by not having the lower end.
Right now I know anything I do in near future will be down a Chicago style track.
|
robbert
511 posts
Mar 02, 2020
4:48 PM
|
I use the four octave where I need the range and the three otherwise. I have an SCX64 with a Powercomb and CX12 with a Powercomb as my primary gigging instruments. Both are C instruments. I’m comfortable playing them in a few different keys/scales, but it’s a work in progress. I’m not playing much straight blues these days, but I often play diatonics in 3rd and 4th position. I should think one functional 16 hole would be useful to have.
|
jbone
3142 posts
Mar 02, 2020
7:27 PM
|
I've used 12 holes for blues and swing for about 20 years now. Sure a 16 would be nice but I've not ever found the need. More recently I've forayed into roots rock as well.
I have used Hohner Chrometta 8 and 12 early on and while they were very easy to play they also did not last long. I was not fond of the 270. The Hering 5148 has had some work, not much even though I've used it for probably 14 years. The Hohner Chromonica II was a gift from a friend and while it does play it would not be my first choice. I do use both of these harps on some material. The Suzuki SCX are great work horse instruments in my book, and kit! Priced pretty decent too. I have not tried the cheaper Asian built chromatics. Swan etc.
----------
Music and travel destroy prejudice.
Reverbnation
Facebook
|
Tuckster
1719 posts
Mar 04, 2020
8:53 AM
|
You should be fine with a 12 hole.It's actually a bit easier to navigate than a 16 hole. I usually play a 16 hole and when I go to a 12 hole it seems so much easier.Just a lot less "real estate" to negotiate. You can always get a 16 hole later if you really get into it.
Last Edited by Tuckster on Mar 04, 2020 8:55 AM
|
Gnarly
2750 posts
Mar 04, 2020
10:40 AM
|
A 16 hole instrument is crucial if you want to copy certain players.
If your goal is to express yourself, a 12 hole will do just fine.
I like a 14 hole so that I have the low G, but usually use an Orchestra tuned Chrom, it starts on G3 but is in C.
Bill Barrett is an insanely good blues chromatic player, and he uses a CX-12 in C,
|
WinslowYerxa
1670 posts
Mar 04, 2020
11:09 AM
|
Why not get a Low C? That way you still have the low octave in a 12-hole format. Hohner correctly calls this a tenor, while Seydel and Hering incorrectly call it a baritone, but it's the same thing. EastTop also makes a low C. Suzuki, regrettably, does not.
----------
Harmonica lessons with one of the world's foremost experts
Check out my blog and other goodies at winslowyerxa.com
Harmonica For Dummies, Second Edition with tons of new stuff
Harmonica Collective Spring Gathering March 19-21
SPAH 2020 convention in Saint Louis, August 11-15
|
agarner
73 posts
Mar 04, 2020
2:49 PM
|
I had a 12 hole and wanted to see what the lower octave was all about. Looking back, I don't think I could go without. The low octave gives such growling depth that no other instrument creates. It adds so much to a song if it is used at the correct moments... Plus, people in the audience and my band mates love it.
I have a Swan 64... yea, its not the best or fanciest but it got me started. I've played a Hohner 64 and it is raspier and louder, but as a hobbyist who gigs it gets the job done on the 3 songs a night I need it.
|
jbone
3145 posts
Mar 04, 2020
3:49 PM
|
@Winslow, I use a low C on several things and it does a great job. I use it amped mostly.
The Suzuki SCX12 I have in D is a tenor as well so the lower octave is there.
One crucial thing I had to really learn in order to play effectively- and save reeds on a chrom- was to not bend, or bend just very slightly. The trade off is well worth it!
----------
Music and travel destroy prejudice.
Reverbnation
Facebook
|
Gnarly
2751 posts
Mar 04, 2020
5:29 PM
|
Suzuki doesn't sell a 12 hole Tenor, but they do sell a super low Sirius that starts on C2.
I retuned D plates to low C to make a Tenor SCX.
|
jbone
3146 posts
Mar 04, 2020
9:18 PM
|
The SCX48 D I have is one step lower than say a standard diatonic. You get some great low notes.
----------
Music and travel destroy prejudice.
Reverbnation
Facebook
Last Edited by jbone on Mar 05, 2020 6:15 AM
|
SuperBee
6530 posts
Mar 05, 2020
1:46 AM
|
I like the thought about the tenor. I have 3 cx12s, including 2 with ‘jazz’ bodys, so I could obtain a set of tenor plates and set one up. The reed plates are around $150, where a complete cx12 tenor is $330.
The cheapest hohner and Suzuki 16 holes I can find are in the $360-$430 zone, so $150 seems a good prospect
|
John M G
346 posts
Mar 05, 2020
3:06 AM
|
Hi David
I wouldn't be without my 16 holer harps.
That said, 4 of them is a bit OTT
I have 2 Hohner Super 64 X's
One earlier Super 64
I also bought an Easttop 16-64 which for the money is a great instrument.
The valves are just brilliant compared to my other Hohner Super 64X harps. They both have at least one farty valve. I've tried all the usual tricks. The Easttop however plays beautifully. The only downside is it is much quieter than the Hohners Super and Super 64X's.The Super 64X's have lots of useable volume
I bought the Easttop from AliExpress for about Aussie $150 delivered. I'd have no hesitation recommending it.
If you were interested I'd let my Super 64 go if it was of interest. The valves are good in that and it's really as new, you can barely see any wear marks on the slide. It's been put to one side since getting the Super 64X's
Cheers John
|
Tuckster
1720 posts
Mar 05, 2020
8:40 AM
|
I agree with John M G on the Easttop. It plays really well and the slide seems to have less tendency to stick. It been a few years.but I got it for less than $200 U.S.
|
WinslowYerxa
1672 posts
Mar 06, 2020
10:11 AM
|
@jbone - You can actually bend farther on a chromatic than on a diatonic, but the approach is much more subtle. If you come at it with a hammer or pliers, you won't get a good result. But you can create the impression of playing hard without actually hitting hard.
----------
Harmonica lessons with one of the world's foremost experts
Check out my blog and other goodies at winslowyerxa.com
Harmonica For Dummies, Second Edition with tons of new stuff
Harmonica Collective Spring Gathering March 19-21
SPAH 2020 convention in Saint Louis, August 11-15
|
jbone
3149 posts
Mar 06, 2020
7:28 PM
|
Winslow, I know a chromatic can be bent but not anything like a diatonic. One reason I hesitate to go far that way with a chro is, it's expensive to have one repaired!
----------
Music and travel destroy prejudice.
Reverbnation
Facebook
|
Gnarly
2752 posts
Mar 07, 2020
9:43 AM
|
It is true that chromatics are more expensive to service than diatonics, but that's mostly because of stuff other than reed failure.
And although reeds fail on chromatics, learning to bend on a chrom shouldn't do that. The issue is that they are single reed bends, and those are different than the double reed bends we are used to on diatonic.
Practice is the only way to get good.
I don't do it enough.
|
Chris Sachitano
39 posts
Mar 09, 2020
5:02 PM
|
Get the 16 and don't look back. If not 16, then the tenor. The full fat licks that drew me to a chromatic use the lower octaves.
Another thing you can do it get Brendan Power's lucky 13 in that is tuned in the standard chromatic tuning. Then you will have the "pattern in your pocket" so to speak for $61.00. This is invaluable, as it is hard to carry a big chro in your pocket.
If I had to choose anything but the 16, it would be a 14holer tuned like Gnarly mentioned above. Having notes to play that are lower than the tonic to which you gravitate is invaluable for melody building IMO.
|
SuperBee
6540 posts
Mar 10, 2020
1:59 AM
|
Yes, I have a 16 on the way so will see. I like the idea of the solo tuned harp.
|
