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Harmonica - design / build
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dchurch
293 posts
Oct 01, 2019
1:28 PM
A recent rebirth of an old post about wood covers reminded of this project. I didn't want to hijack. I did spend the majority of my time designing and testing cover plates during this build.

I went with an asymmetrical bottom/top that I believe helps encourage a deep embouchure and a slight upward tilt. I tested a few different polymers and decided to go with this 20% stainless steel PLA. I made a set of 40% bronze covers but wasn't happy with the surface.

I also tried some pretty unconventional designs to enhance hand techniques...

Anyway, this was my favorite result.

3-D-Harp-Back
3-D-Harp-Bottom
3-D-Harp-Top
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The Iceman
3923 posts
Oct 01, 2019
5:05 PM
If you want further into the mouth and upward tilt, top and bottom plates can not be asymmetrical.

Saw a design years ago where top and bottom plates were shaped differently to encourage what you attempted in regards to in the mouth placement. Seemed effective and innovative, but it is hard to change the habits of harmonica players with new designs, so never heard about it again...
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The Iceman
jbone
3015 posts
Oct 01, 2019
7:31 PM
Amazing, Dave. Of course now the questions have to start. What plates and comb just for starters.
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dchurch
294 posts
Oct 01, 2019
8:39 PM
Thanks Iceman,
I suspect you are right about most players not wanting to change habits or try something different when they already have something that works. I'm just not wired that way.

I honestly don't have any trouble playing these asymmetrical covers anymore than my asymmetrical low key Manji harps or going from a fat Seydel Session to a thin Hammond...

I've noticed that I subconsciously tilt when I switch from tongue blocking to a pucker. My pucker is mostly on the bottom lip. That said, I don't know if the asymmetrical cover is any type of "improvement" but it does lend itself to the upward tilt. Of course symmetry is just one part of design.

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Harmonica Mutes & Accessories
www.dBombMute.com

dchurch
295 posts
Oct 01, 2019
8:50 PM
Thanks jbone, Good question.
I should have mentioned that the reed plates were salvaged from a squished Marine Band. I designed and made the comb out of the same stainless/polymer as the covers.

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Harmonica Mutes & Accessories
www.dBombMute.com

florida-trader
1452 posts
Oct 02, 2019
6:58 AM
Nice work. It is great to see you imagination come to life. I have a concept floating around in my head that I think I will bring to fruition next year. Thanks for the inspiration.
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Tom Halchak
Blue Moon Harmonicas
Blue Moon Harmonicas
jbone
3016 posts
Oct 02, 2019
8:05 AM
So this polymer is like a resin with stainless steel added?
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dchurch
297 posts
Oct 02, 2019
10:27 AM
jbone,
The polymer in this case is a vegetable-based (corn) compound, polylactic acid or PLA. It's nontoxic and biodegradable. This specific PLA is infused with stainless steel particles (20%). It flows at about 400F and cools to form a rigid part.

I picked PLA for this project because it can form a strong thin structure and has a nice hard surface.
It seemed to be a good material for the covers and the comb.

-The Harp Plane is made of a similar PLA compound it's very stable, hard and rigid.

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Harmonica Mutes & Accessories
www.dBombMute.com

Last Edited by dchurch on Oct 02, 2019 10:27 AM
dchurch
298 posts
Oct 02, 2019
10:44 AM
Thanks Tom I can't wait to see wait to see your concept brought to life.

PS, I did some recent wheeling and dealing to get a couple of your combs on custom harps. I absolutely love them!

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florida-trader
1454 posts
Oct 02, 2019
11:53 AM
Thanks for your kind words dchurch. Much appreciated.

I have been business now for just about 10 years. I’m amazed to even be typing those words. I remember being the “new kid on the block” and in many ways I still consider myself just that. I think it comes from always being willing to try new stuff, which means I have very little experience at it.

I will say this about my design (the one I have floating around in my head) or anything anyone else might be considering. It is one thing to make a one-of-a-kind harp that only you will enjoy and you have no plans to mass produce or market. It is another thing to design a harp (or anything else I think) that you plan to market. You have to find the intersection of a lot of different lines. Of course you have the look and feel of it. You have to decide which material you will use. Which reed plates will you base it on? (Making your own reed plates is cost prohibitive so us small-scale guys are pretty much resigned to using reed plates manufactured by one of the big guys.) I have been making combs for 10 years. I have made some covers. The covers were very expensive to make. I have to find a way to get those costs down. If you are building one or two harps for yourself, then who cares if it costs $100 or $200 to build? You’re only going to build one or two. But if you want to mass produce them, you can’t spend that kind of money. You would have to charge so much for them you’ll price yourself out of the market. If you look at some of the other harps on the market or that have been produced in the past, you can get some good ideas. Of course, we have the Marine Bands, Special 20s, the Manjis, etc. The Golden Melody is a really interesting design, with the integrated comb and covers, if you look at it closely. But we can also look at what Brad Harrison did with the B-Radical. Very innovative. Some of the old Thorens harmonicas are pretty neat. Yonberg has an interesting design. Even some of the designs coming out of China are cool. My thought is that if you’re going make something – make it unique but functional. Its like brewing craft beer. It is easy to make a Plain Jane beer, but if you’re going to do that, you might as well just go the store and buy Budweiser. If you’re going to make some home brew, make it unique. So, those are my thoughts. Cool design. Attractive. Functional. Easy to manufacture. High quality. Keep the costs down as low as you can.

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Tom Halchak
Blue Moon Harmonicas
Blue Moon Harmonicas
jbone
3017 posts
Oct 02, 2019
7:00 PM
The Harrison debacle is a good example of a business going crazy and cratering. I believe he had best intentions to make a great product but the devil was in the details and his cost killed the business.

You guys who are conceiving and making into reality, ideas, you have my total RESPECT. I can do some remodel stuff but on the level you two work I'm lost. If I was a baker I'd weight 500 lbs. from eating my mistakes!

In my mind the reed plate is the total core of a harp. My dream some years ago was to find an indestructible material to make reeds out of. Obviously it didn't happen. Seydel has stainless reeds on some harps and I even managed to flat one of them out, a blow reed of all things.

I have one Suzuki Pure harp, which uses decent reed plates and is made of rosewood, comb and covers. Very sweet sounding harp.
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dchurch
300 posts
Oct 02, 2019
9:36 PM
Tom, 10 years is awesome that must amount to quite a stack of custom combs, or placed end to end would stretch about how far?

!0 years is also before my time here at MBH but I do a lot of searching and reading, including plenty of great posts from 10 or more years ago.

Thanks for yet another good piece of reading and advice. I like the one of a kind and who cares remark. I can definitely relate to that.

I just finished making a couple of bamboo fly rods. I had some scraps leftover and decided to make a pair of chop sticks, rod style. That involved: determining the taper, setting planing forms, hand planing 12 sticks of bamboo to identical tapered 60 degree triangles, taping, gluing, string binding, a trip through the curing cabinet, de-stringing, hand scraping, trimming to length, chamfering the ends, final sanding and polishing.

I can also relate to the last few words of a wise man's profile ;) "I am having a lot of fun just doing what I love to do."

Good luck during your next decade.

OT -Here's one of the last rods I built. The sound track features the harmonica starting about 3:40 into the video.



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florida-trader
1455 posts
Oct 03, 2019
6:55 AM
That video is insane!! It puts anything I do to shame. Wow!

10 years of making custom combs. How many and how far? I have made and sold 1000's of combs. I keep an inventory about 1200-1400 on hand at all times and would say that I have been maintaining that number for probably 5 or 6 years. It sort of built up over time. I just kept pumping profits from the business back into more stock. I also keep about 400-500 brand new harps and/or reed plates in stock too. (plus another 125-15 pre-wars) It gets a little crazy. I just did a little math. Assuming that the average comb is about 4" in length, 8000 combs would be about a half mile. That is probably somewhere in the ball park.

Jbone - Harrison Harmonicas was a debacle but there are/were some silver linings. I'm sorry that some people got burned in the process so I am not making light of that fact. He pushed the envelope and opened some doors for guys like me. His stated goal was to make an out of the box harp that was as good as a custom harp. I think the dream was to engineer the precision into the harp. I don't think that happened. I have a couple of the B-Radical harps and have repaired some others. The precision engineering is just not there. To me, it serves as further illustration of how difficult it is to make quality reed plates. We take it for granted because we have always had Hohner or Suzuki or Lee Oskar or Seydel, and now, of course, some of the new Chinese brands that are emerging. We assume that they are easy to make. Well, they are, if you are willing and able to spend big money on factories and tooling and technicians. But for a small time operator, it is simply not feasable. When Harrisong could not engineer the precision into their reed plates, they resorted to sending them off to some of the best customizers in the country to have them worked on. The result was that they do indeed play very well. And the design is revolutionary. But the reason they played as good (or better) than a custom harp is because they were/are custom harps. They did not produce a stock harp, without any customization, and it played as good as a custom harp. I think a lot of us got some lessons in what not to do.


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Tom Halchak
Blue Moon Harmonicas
Blue Moon Harmonicas
dchurch
301 posts
Oct 03, 2019
11:40 AM
Tom,
Those are awesome numbers. A 1/2 mile of combs is just mind boggling!

It also amounts shipload of happy harmonica players.

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Harmonica Mutes & Accessories
www.dBombMute.com

florida-trader
1456 posts
Oct 03, 2019
1:48 PM
Well, seeing as how your fly rods are a lot longer than a harmonica comb, you probably have that beat by wide margin.
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Tom Halchak
Blue Moon Harmonicas
Blue Moon Harmonicas
jbone
3019 posts
Oct 03, 2019
2:02 PM
@Tom, I definitely get that Harrison was kind of chasing a rainbow. He was a great salesman, I know since I sent my $$ to him gladly. And got zip in return since by then even, it was too late. But you're right, he did help define some limits even through his errors.
For many years I was trying to find the "perfect" harp, one that would not fail me even with my very bad playing habits at the time. The Harrison thing was a part of my epiphany. I had to realize at some point that my habits had to change and my "attack" on a harp- and my voice as well- had to become much improved if I wanted to be a happy player and singer whose instrument(s) lasted a while and did not sustain the kind of damage I'd done to them for years.
I have enjoyed a few custom harps over the years but for the most part I've been an ootb guy, and still am mostly. Budget constraints have me taking better care of what I have and sending harps out for repair as needed. I even try sometimes to bring a flat reed back, at least for awhile.
If I was 34 not 64, and had space, I'd probably put a repair/customizing kit together. As it is, living full time in 200 sq. ft., and on the road full time, it isn't feasible for me. But I do love the trend guys like you and Dave and others are generating.
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Sarge
741 posts
Oct 04, 2019
4:25 AM
I've played a Harrison several times and Tom's harps are just as good if not a bit better!
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Wisdom does not always come with old age. Sometimes old age arrives alone.
florida-trader
1458 posts
Oct 04, 2019
7:45 AM
Jbone – the longer I am in this business the more I understand some things. My point of view is biased so you have to take that into consideration. Everyone is searching for “The Perfect Harp” but I think it is a bit of a moving target. As you have mentioned, you have adjusted your attack and playing style to help increase longevity. Good move on your part and sage advice for anyone who has an issue with blowing out harps. Your decision to change was conscious but I think we all go through an evolution which may involve some unconscious changes. And then there is the harp itself. It changes. I could give you a “Perfect Harp” today and because of the subtle changes you might make and just general wear and tear on the harp, in 2, 3 or 6 months (depending on how much you play) it will stray from being what it was. I don’t think that is any different from a car or a lawnmower or ….. you name it. Stuff needs to be cleaned, maintained, repaired and cared for. Harps need to be cared for. So, in my opinion, if you want “Perfect Harps” then you have to learn how to take care of them yourself or develop a relationship with someone who can take care of them for you. It is doable. I’m the same age as you. It used to be a mystery. Not many people understood how to set up, tune, adjust, tweak, customize, maintain or repair harps. And those few that did either kept their secrets to themselves or had no way to share it – or both.

You change. Your harp changes. Your definition of “The Perfect Harp” changes. We have to adapt. But it is doable – in my opinion.

Sarge – thanks for your kind words. I watched The Rise and Fall of Harrison Harmonicas before I launched Blue Moon. A lot of what I learned was what not to do. But, as the years have passed and I have slowly but surely faced many of the same challenges, I understand what they did right too. It was a tough nut to crack. I know a lot of people got screwed. But some good did come out of it. The lessons are there for the guys who want to extract them.

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Tom Halchak
Blue Moon Harmonicas
Blue Moon Harmonicas
Mahcks
106 posts
Oct 04, 2019
11:23 AM
I made some wood covers a while back. After playing with them quite a bit I cannot say that they offer any real advantages beyond comfort. My golden melody, done in snakewood, is exceptionally thick and must be played tilted downward. It relief on the top lip, as the bottom lip alone is responsible for the pucker. It can be tricky to play clearly, as the harp doesn't sit in the mouth at all. It just took a little getting used to, though.
dchurch
302 posts
Oct 04, 2019
12:43 PM
That's cool Mahcks. Kudos for actually making the covers. I'm sure it took significant effort. Wood certainly has it's limitations especially cut thin with moisture and gripping involved.

I don't own a "Pure Harp" but it's my understanding that those wood covers are also fairly thick, resulting in a smaller sound chamber vs a fatter harp.

Good point about advantages. It's nice to believe there could be some other advantage to using wood beyond aesthetics. At least it's warmer to pick up on a cold day:) In any case the Snakewood must look pretty darn cool.

Some of us would be interested in seeing photos or something about how you went about the work...

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Harmonica Mutes & Accessories
www.dBombMute.com

Last Edited by dchurch on Oct 04, 2019 12:44 PM


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