A C harp played in 2nd position can provide a G MINOR hexatonic scale. When instead starting on the second note of that scale (i.e. the Bb note), we have the Bb MAJOR hexatonic scale. Same notes, just different tonic.
Therefore a C harp can be played in what is actually 11th position.
By transposing to a more common band/song key, we might say that an A harp could lay down a G MAJOR hexatonic melody over a song with a Gmaj I chord. Or a D harp could be used in a C song.
My question is: Can you please cite some songs where the harp is played in 11th position like this?
@IaNerd I am confused by your latest (your 64th) post. Your OP seemed to want to explore diatonic "harp" in 11th position, while your latest post seems to compare Richter tuning to two tunings commonly found on chromatic harmonicas.
Was your post intending to discuss extended position playing in 11th on a Richter tuned diatonic, or to discuss the merits of Richter vs. alternative tunings, such as Solo and Bebop found primarily on chromatic harmonicas? ----------
In my post #64 I should have been more clear. First I'll point out that all three of those tunings can and do occur in non-slide "diatonic" harmonicas (though the d-word can be problematic). As I pondered how to play in 11th position to achieve major hexatonic blues scales in a given band/song key, it occurred to me that the relative ease of doing so varies as per the tuning being used. For example, let's consider the case of using a C harp to play Bb major hexatonic blues scales. In each octave two notes must be flatted (the Bb and the Db). Getting those flats in all of the harp's octaves is easier on a Solo-tuned instrument than on a Richter-tuned instrument. And on a Bebop-tuned instrument, one of those flats (the Bb) can be played on an unbent reed.
I'm now seeing a simpler way. A Bebop-tuned non-slide C harp played in 2nd position provides a G major hexatonic blues scale across the harp with no required bending. Just as it also provides an E minor hexatonic blues scale in its 5th position.
Every tuning arrangement offers advantages and trades other possibilities in order to get those advantages.
Buttonless non-chromatic bebopped/solo tuning will let you play what you suggested. However, some of the possibilities available on a Richter harp are sacrificed.
I have some alternately tuned diatonics I use on occasion, mainly Paddy Richter and double country tuned in a few keys each. I also have a few minor keyed harps and a couple melody makers.
I HAVE used a Paddy Richter on a recording as a side man to double a banjo riff that was hard to do at speed on a regular Richter, though I soloed on a regular Richter. I also have used a G Paddy Richter in 3rd for some Am songs with one band I play in.
Usually the alternately tuned harps sit in a drawer at home while I take Richters and chromatics to gigs.
There are many more alt tunings available out there that I don't have, each having their own merits. I decided a while back that I am not going to collect full sets of all available tunings. Generally I have chosen to mainly use Richter diatonics and keyed chromatics most of the time to cover the music I play. I come prepared to play in any key as guitar players may tune down, or capo up, or both, and I never know when a rarely used key will be called for.
If I were ever to go for Bebop, it would be on a C chromatic.
Do you anticipate using Bebopped/solo tuned harps for all your playing? Or is it that you get into the theory of it, loving the "math"? ----------
Doug S.
Last Edited by dougharps on Aug 05, 2019 10:38 AM
I have and play a Tombo 3624 "School" (solo-tuned) tremolo harp in Cmaj, as well as other harps of other types, tunings and keys. I am thinking about retuning my 3624 to Bebop. One possible use of this would be as a highly versatile "campfire" instrument. Respectfully, your last paragraph poses a false dichotomy. If I retune my Tombo 3624, I would likely use it for *some* of my playing. *And* I enjoy the theory. *And* I endeavor to bring attention to the possibilities of many alternate tunings -- whether or not they were devised by me. I appreciate your contributions to this discussion, Doug.
Last Edited by IaNerd on Aug 05, 2019 12:10 PM
@IaNerd You are correct! Sorry about the false dichotomy. Despite my post offering a poorly framed inquiry, you answered my intended question clearly and completely.
Bebop tuning Blow: C E G Bb C E G Bb C E Draw: D F A B D F A B D F
Just so I can follow along. I see what you’re saying
So it isn’t particularly 11th position, or Bb which interests you any longer? More the possibility of playing major and minor hexatonic blues scales?
Last Edited by SuperBee on Aug 05, 2019 1:43 PM
It's all of interest to me. One idea led to another. Just today I have realized:
A Bebop-tuned non-slide C harp played in 2nd position provides a G major hexatonic blues scale across the harp without requiring bends. Just as it also provides an E minor hexatonic blues scale in its 5th position without requiring bends.
The same harp would handily play melodically in Cmaj, Amin, Fmaj and Dmin -- without requiring bends.
Also:
D and G dorian E and A phrygian F and B lydian G and C mixolydian A and D aeolian B and E locrian
