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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Reeds
Reeds
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SuperBee
5939 posts
May 05, 2019
4:05 PM
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I saw recently someone made a book about Hohner reeds for both the Modular Series harps, and the ‘handmade’ 10 hole diatonic harps.
The information about the handmade range has been freely available for quite a few years. It’s available on Pat Missin’s site and also as a handy chart from Richard Sleigh. I turned Richard’s chart into a spreadsheet to help me track my spares, and I’ve shared the file in several locations.
The Modular Harps are a different story.
There is not as much demand for this info but I think it’s still worth having.
Pat Missin has provided all the measurements but I’ve never seen a chart. The beauty of Richard’s chart is that it visually explains the relationship between the 2 different templates Hohner use for the handmade harps.
I decided to investigate the MS harps for myself.
I ended up making a chart for the MS using the same principle as Richard had used.
What I discovered is that there are 2 templates for MS harps. Just like the handmade, the harps from Db up to F use 1 template and those from C down to Low D use another.
In the low template, there are 3 groups of slots. Slots 1 - 4 are all the same width, slots 5-7 are another group, and then 8-10 are the same width
In the high template, slot 1 corresponds to slot 2 of the low harps, and that relationship holds up to slot 9, then slot 10 is a new unique size.
This means for instance, that slot 6 on the low harps is the same as slot 5 on the high harps, so you could take 6 blow from a C and use it as a replacement for draw 5 on a D.
With the groups of slots of same width there are also lots of possibilities for clipping longer reeds to fit.
I’m happy to provide the file to anyone who cares.
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Tom585
94 posts
May 05, 2019
7:59 PM
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Can you explain what "handmade" harps are, Superbee? That's a phrase I'm not familiar with. Thanks.
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SuperBee
5941 posts
May 05, 2019
11:42 PM
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Hi Tom,
Yes, it’s a shorthand I’m trying to popularise.
I could say the Marine Band and Progressive lines.
Which means:
Marine Band 1896 aka ‘classic’
Marine Band Deluxe
Marine Band Crossover
Marine Band Thunderbird
Progressive Sp20 (formerly the Marine Band Sp20)
Rocket
Golden Melody
This also includes the Pre-MS Blues Harp and the pre-MS pro harp and some other models from the past which use the same reeds as a marine Band, and some models pitched at markets outside North America which were essentially marine bands marketed with other names.
All the models I’ve mentioned use the same reeds.
The MS harps use different reeds and I believe those reeds are specific to only the MS harps.
You can buy individual reeds to fit the handmade harps (in packs of 5 minimum) direct from Hohner, but the MS reeds are not available separately, only as complete replacement reedplates, in pairs.
If you want to repair an MS blues harp or big river, these days it’s quite easy to do so if only you have a good reed to replace the one which has failed.
With harps retailing at around $50, a relatively small investment in tools can quickly pay for itself if it enables you to repair harps which would otherwise be trash.
Not many people seem to repair the MS harps but I think I will restore some which are in my junk pile now that I have this knowledge.
Note though, some of the older MS harps are very difficult to repair because of the type of riveting process used in the early days. I probably would not bother with those.
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barbequebob
3573 posts
May 06, 2019
9:34 AM
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When the MS series first came out in 1992, every operation on it was done entirely by robotics but there were many problems with it and the were largely hated in their first few years and used short slot reeds but in 1995, Hohner began a major retooling for all their harps and then a number of steps went back to being done by hand and the MS harps uses short, medium and long slot reeds depending on what key it is (something much like Hering does).
The handmades still uses hand operated riveting machines.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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SuperBee
5943 posts
May 06, 2019
4:05 PM
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Hi Bob,
I’ve never quite understood what you mean when you describe reeds as short slot, medium slot, long slot. Could you expand on that please?
I’ll tell you what I’ve observed with my calliper.
I saw there are 11 different slots in the entire range.
The largest 10 slots are used for harps in keys from Low D to C. The smallest 10 slots are used for the harps Db and up
9 slots are common to both ranges.
This means there is a bit more scope for reed salvage than in the handmade harps, which only share 7 slots across the 2 ranges.
I measured a range of MS harps.
The lowest tuned one I measured was Low D. I also measured G, C, D E and F.
Each of the 11 slots is a different length but width is a different story.
There are only 4 different widths used. The groups are slots 1-4, 3-6, 7-10, 11
This means potential to clip reeds from a longer slot to fit a shorter one if the width matches. The practice of this technique requires experience to be able to predict roughly how great the change in pitch will be so that the clipped reed can be brought into tune in its new home.
I’m only speaking of the current production ie harps produced after 1995
I’m glad they changed.
I shared a picture of my chart on the Facebook Harp Repair group.
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WinslowYerxa
1638 posts
May 06, 2019
5:36 PM
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The Handmade term is one that Hohner used some years ago to distinguish the "handmade" Marine Band, Golden Melody, and Special 20 models from the supposedly machine-made MS or Modular Series harps.
More recently, they split what used to be the "handmade" models into two lines, Marine Band (MB, MB Deluxe, Crossover and Thunderbird) and Progressive (Sp20, Rocket models, Golden Melody).
Long, Medium, and Short Slot refers to the *series* of slot lengths (and by extension, the vibrating length of the reeds mounted over those slots) on any given model and key of harmonica.
In other words, *all* of the slots on a long slot harmonica will be longer than the corresponding slots on a medium or short slot model. Hole 1 slot on a long slot reedplate will be longer than the Hole 1 slot on a medium or short slot reedplate, and so will the Hole 10 slot compared to medium or short slot versions of that same hole.
These terms are direct translations from the German: langschlitz = long slot.
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Winslow
Harmonica lessons with one of the world's foremost experts
Check out my blog and other goodies at winslowyerxa.com
Harmonica For Dummies, Second Edition with tons of new stuff
SPAH 2019 convention in Tilsa, August 14-17
Last Edited by WinslowYerxa on May 07, 2019 10:43 AM
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SuperBee
5944 posts
May 06, 2019
6:08 PM
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Thanks for that, Winslow. So 'Long Slot' is just a relative term.
Prior to taking the obvious step of measuring the slots on various keys of MS harp, i had believed there were 3 different templates in use, as implied by the use of long/medium/short in reference to these harps.
In fact there are only 2 templates, so the use of 'medium' seems redundant.
Perhaps there were 3 in the original series. I expect i have enough keys in my junk box to establish whether that's the case, although i doubt i have any low-tuned examples. i don't know if factory-made low tuned harps existed back then.
i was given a large box of 80s and early 90s harps. Its fascinating but also rather repulsive (lots of dust and dirt and corrosion and occasional evidence of small creatures making temporary homes). Most of the harps are broken but it contains a number of early MS harps including Sp20 and Marine Band types which i believe were not marketed as such in North America. also an MS model named i think "Mondharmonica" which i've never heard of outside of the box. The cover has an image of the globe.
I'll investigate.
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WinslowYerxa
1639 posts
May 07, 2019
10:45 AM
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AFAIK most diatonics use only long and short slot. Some chromatics use medium slot.
The original MS reeds were short and stubby and pretty much universally described as performing poorly. The 1995 redesign resulted in reeds that were longer than those on the corresponding keys of "handmade" harps, and I've noticed that it translates into greater robustness of sound on lower keys.
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Winslow
Harmonica lessons with one of the world's foremost experts
Check out my blog and other goodies at winslowyerxa.com
Harmonica For Dummies, Second Edition with tons of new stuff
SPAH 2019 convention in Tilsa, August 14-17
Last Edited by WinslowYerxa on May 07, 2019 10:46 AM
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Tom585
95 posts
May 08, 2019
7:30 PM
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Are the handmade harps tuned by hand? Are MS harps not tuned by hand?
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SuperBee
5949 posts
May 08, 2019
8:25 PM
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Tom, they are both tuned by hand as far as i know
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