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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Hello and please help
Hello and please help
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Pickn5
1 post
Mar 16, 2019
7:04 AM
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New here and recently started to learn playing the harp. I'm also a advanced novice level 5 string banjo picker, three finger style. My musical taste is varied, bluegrass, classic country, folk, oldies rock and roll, and some blues. I have a Hohner Special 20 Progressive in C and I'm using the Harmonica Primer book and DVD for my lessons. I also have Charlie McCoy's Beginning Country Harp DVD. I'm mostly interested in bluegrass and classic country music and know that in the future I'll have to purchase harps in other keys. What additional keys should I get first? Any input or suggestions are greatly appreciated.
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dougharps
1925 posts
Mar 16, 2019
8:11 AM
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I have similar musical interests.
I will assume that you will mainly play primarily second, first, and perhaps sometimes 3rd position for a while.
The first 3 must-have keys I recommend obtaining in this order: C, A, and D.
Then I recommend G and F as almost equally useful.
With the above 5 keys you can play on a majority of the songs you want to play. I consider those 5 keys a basic set.
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Then at some point you may want to obtain Bb, Eb, and E in an order depending on what songs you encounter requiring those keys. I play with a wide variety of people and use them all. But most of the time (except with one guitar capo player!) I could play almost everything only using 8 keys of harps: Eb, Bb, F, C, G, D, A, and E.
Eventually, if you play with a lot of different people, you will need all 12 keys and maybe also Low F and High G to give you high/low pitch choices. Other low keys can be cool, too, but are not frequently needed unless you get into playing a lot of low harp.
Regarding why you may need the 4 other keys, some guitar players capo for vocal range or tune down a half step, which may transpose songs into less frequently used keys.
Some songs are written for horns or piano flat key playing, and will require harps in keys seldom used in guitar, fiddle, or mandolin based songs. Most of the music you describe would not usually create a need for B, F# (I prefer Low F#), Db, or Ab instruments. But sometime you may encounter the need for those keys.
A set with F, C, G, D, and A harps should serve you well for the time being, but unless you want to spring for getting them all at once, I suggest the order above.
Other forum members may have other rationales and suggestions than mine, and that is OK.
Have fun!
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Doug S.
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KC69
596 posts
Mar 16, 2019
9:13 AM
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Pickn5: My first instructor wrote what I think is the best beginners harmonica teaching material out there! He is also and amazing banjo and Dobro player who has followed Charlie McCoy all his life!!! His name is Frank Bard, and his Beginners book is "Harmonica from the Heartland." He lives in Central Ohio. He plays harmonica along with the other instruments for an amazing local bluegrass band! He has won the Buckeye State Harmonica competition twice and the European once! Not sure is book is still available on the internet, but I can get you in touch with him. I think the cost including accompanying CD is $15.00 Worth every penny. He gives lessons and though he is retired, he probably would do Skype, cheaper than anyone else you would find! In less than 1 year he had me on my way, hook, line, and sinker!!! My email: castlehomes69@yahoo.com (my cell), and I have taken many phone lessons, and mine are FREE, can I get a hallelujah for Free! 937-537-1356. And Any information Doug above gives is great! Doug is an amazing guy and a passionate amazing harmonica player!!!
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And I Thank You !!
KC Bluz
Givin the devil the Bluz
Last Edited by KC69 on Mar 16, 2019 9:15 AM
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Thievin' Heathen
1123 posts
Mar 16, 2019
7:26 PM
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I seem to find myself using G a lot when playing with the bluegrass pickers.
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Pickn5
2 posts
Mar 18, 2019
6:46 AM
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dougharps and KC69, thank you for the detailed responses.
dougharps, once I get through with the Harmonica Primer lessons (all in C) I'll start making a set of harps. I'm currently on the first lesson, getting clean single notes.
KC69, I tried online to find Frank Bard's book and all I could find was an album. I enjoy Charlie McCoy's playing. I also like Christelle Berthon's playing.
Thievin' Heathen, the tunes I play are in G and I'm working on my backup playing in G, A, D, and C.
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dougharps
1927 posts
Mar 18, 2019
7:57 AM
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Does the Harmonica Primer approach only use 1st position/"straight harp?"
Does it also include 2nd position/"crossharp"?
"Position playing" makes a difference as to which harp you need for playing in a given key.
If you are thinking of playing straight harp, you should buy the harp in the key of the song.
For 2nd position/"cross harp" you use a different harp key than for straight harp, such as using an F harp for C, a C harp to play in G, a G harp for D, a D harp for A, an A harp for E, etc.
The Circle of Fifths lays out the order.
I noticed that you are not planning on playing anything in E, but you ARE planning on playing music in D.
If you are planning on 2nd position playing/"crossharp" you might want to get a G for playing in the key of D and wait a bit to get the A harp. Guitar players often favor the key of E, which is why I suggested an A harp as important for that key in 2nd position.
You should buy the harps in the order that fit your musical needs, including which keys playing in which "positions".
Again, if you are thinking of playing 1st position / "straight harp", you should buy the harp in the key of the song.
My recommended order was based on a general use approach, including 2nd position / "crossharp".
If you are not just building a set and you have specific songs in mind, it makes sense to buy your harps in an order to meet your specific musical needs.
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Doug S.
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Pickn5
3 posts
Mar 19, 2019
9:08 AM
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dougharps, The Harmonica Primer does cover 2nd position using the C harp to play 3 different tunes in G. I'll wait until I'm done with the Primer before purchasing more harps.
I've been a closet player and I'm itching to go to a local open mic/jam. First with the banjo, then later the harp, then both at some point.
No matter how it goes, I'm having fun learning both instruments.
Thank you for your detailed responses, they help me a lot.
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Jeff B
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Raven
151 posts
Mar 21, 2019
3:58 PM
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If you are trying to save a few bucks, you might consider purchasing an entire set wherein you'll normally get a price break. But first you may want to determine which brand and model to be your preference. You may be disappointed if you drop several hundred and then find out you wished you had chosen differently. Most everyone on this forum has an opinion about which brand is "the best" but most of us own several different brands and models. Personally I favor Suzuki, but I own quite a few Hohners, LO's and a number of Seydels, especially in the more difficult to find keys. If you're playing a lot of first position for country, rock, oldies and bluegrass, I definitely would invest in G and A next. Save B major for last. I wouldn't be without my F and F# lows. You'll find in country tunes a lot of F, F#, Eb. Watch for the guys who tune down a half-step like Doug was talking about.
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jbone
2862 posts
Mar 21, 2019
4:23 PM
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I'm with Raven here. My case has had a lot of different flavors over 45+ years. Mostly these days for 10 hole I like Suzuki Manji and Hohner Marine Band Deluxe, but I'm a dedicated harp player and have felt for years that spending some dough for quality beats replacing cheapass models.
Having a kind of basic 5 or 7 key set will be a big help when you do walk into a jam and end up on a stage. Usually a harp player at a jam is at the mercy of whoever calls off the song.
Interesting combination, banjo and harp! I don't know if you're aware but a hundred years and more ago a lot of popular music was played on a 4 string or plectrum banjo. Even blues. The thing about harmonica is it's played in most every brand of music out there.
Some guys you are probably aware of who play country harp but just in case- Charlie McCoy, Mickey Rafael, DeFord Bailey just to name 3.
Wife and I do the duo thing but I've had a lot of different experiences over the years. Feel free to look at the links below to see what we do.
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Music and travel destroy prejudice.
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Music and travel destroy prejudice.
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