Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! > Need a *smaller* rotary pedal
Need a *smaller* rotary pedal
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1534 posts
Mar 06, 2019
7:04 AM
(This is only of interest for those of us who pursue that Hammond sound, so please just skip it if that´s not at all up your alley.)

I use the Pog 2 organ pedal. After I bought I quickly realized that it would not suffice in itself, but it needed a rotary simulator of sorts to be at least moderatly convincing as a Hammond. The only piece of equipment I could afford at the time was a used Boss RT-20 pedal, and I´m not terribly happy with it. With that I mean not only the sound it produces for the money -- although I could live with that -- but also its size. It takes up way too much space on my pedalboard, and the "cool" feature with that light effect holds no interest for me.

Question: Anyone who´s got a tip for a *smaller* unit that´s still acceptable?
There are several that does not meet the "convincing" criterion: they don´t sound like a rotary speaker, but like a chorus, flange etc pedal. Nothing wrong there, but rotary is rotary.
If it´s not very expensive, that´s an added plus!

Last Edited by Martin on Mar 06, 2019 7:06 AM
289 posts
Mar 07, 2019
4:00 PM
In this video he pairs a MicroPog with a Strymon Lex pedal and gets a convincing Organ sound. Check it out at the 7m:15sec mark....

Last Edited by Harp2swing on Mar 07, 2019 4:02 PM
1535 posts
Mar 08, 2019
6:04 AM
Thank you Harp2Swing.
Yes I´ve seen that one. It is definitely convincing indeed (although one shall avoid bends when one uses that sound, I think).
The problem is that as far as I understand, the Strymon is also a quite largish thing, also it´s supposed to be hell to dial in good sounds, and it is a very expensive pedal.
But, once again, convincing, no doubt. If I saw one in a music store I would be there for testdriving in a jiffy.
1536 posts
Mar 08, 2019
6:06 AM
(Let me add that the Pog 2 is far superior to the Micropog, that he uses -- but that superiority comes with a price, both in the literal as well as the physical senses: it takes up space.)
5845 posts
Mar 09, 2019
1:17 AM
I have a behringer ‘rotary machine’ here, on loan. I’m yet to try it but it fulfills the ‘smaller’ requirement at least. Evidently they are a copy of a line 6 product.
I know behringer gear doesn’t have a great reputation for dependability
4296 posts
Mar 09, 2019
2:07 PM
The Lex is larger than a Boss pedal, but not huge. It is very easy to use unless you choose to dig into the additional start up controls. It is 9v.

Another option would be the Tech 21 Roto Choir. I don't like it as much, but it is a bit smaller and all the dials are available all the time. It is 9v.

The best sounding is the Neo Vent, but it is 18v and still not the size of a Boss pedal. It is also expensive.

If I played out a lot, nowadays, I'd get the Neo. Being that I am not playing much at all these days, I am content with my Lex.
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1537 posts
Mar 10, 2019
6:11 AM
Thank you, guys.

@Superbee: I´ve tried the Behringer briefly -- under slightly stressfull conditions, admittedly -- and could not dial in any really convincing settings. But as you say, it surely fulfills the smaller requirment. Also, the price is right!

Mike: The Lex comes highly recommended from several sources (but rather pricey -- although I´m informed that the rotary functions is an expensive thing to develop so that should be expected), and it would be interesting to try it out.
I play out every now and then, and I´m gonna check out the Tech and Neo -- esp. since the latter also comes in a "mini" version.
3687 posts
Mar 11, 2019
5:42 AM
Lex is very good and not very large. Hammond Leslie G Pedal is also good and not very large.
1538 posts
Mar 11, 2019
8:16 AM
Thanks hvyj, I´ll try and find their specific measurements. My pedalboard as it is now forces me to chose between what effects to bring along, and that was not the general idea when buying them.
I see there is also a smaller Lester *K* and I shall se if I can try it out somewhere.
1920 posts
Mar 11, 2019
9:08 AM
Since you already use the Pog 2 to get an organ sound, I thought I would ask this question:

Have you tried using the pedal(s) for the Hammond sound, but playing octaves using breath pulses to simulate the rotary Leslie cabinet sound instead of adding another pedal?

When you use your breath you can directly alter the frequency of the pulsing much as an actual Leslie cabinet speed control can alter the rate of pulsing.

Just something else to try...

Doug S.
3688 posts
Mar 11, 2019
1:39 PM
@Martin: The K pedal and the G pedal are the same size. Don't get them confused with the large white pedal also made by Suzuki. I think the Lester is made by Electro-Harmonix,

Last Edited by hvyj on Mar 11, 2019 1:43 PM
1540 posts
Mar 12, 2019
6:21 PM
@dougharps: I can use octaves pretty well, I think. But one is never the best judge of that. Still, not a natural TB-er, it´s there most of the time for me. (I can see if I can put up some demonstration, once my apartment is in order after a seriously annoying water leak.)
Nevertheless, the Hammond sound is not within my reach. And, as hvyj and others have said before, when this tread has been up, the good, convincing, Leslie pedals makes you sound like an organ even before you connect the organ pedals.
There´s a certain ... intensity there that is very hard to reproduce. I can fake the accordion, reasonably well -- but I still use a chorus pedal, lightly attached. A church organ: no probs with the Pog2 and my TC HoF reverb.
But Hammond is a different beast.

And, let me add, I´m not terribly impressed by some of the stuff that´s been put up here, purporting to be more or less Hammond like.
They might be musically convincing, OK, but that Leslie touch is just not there.
1541 posts
Mar 12, 2019
6:25 PM
@hvyi: Thanks. I´ll check them both out, if my local supplier will bring them in -- one must test these trhings. They appear to be on a minor sale right now, presumably because there are new stuff arriving, or they haven´t done well.
42 posts
Mar 13, 2019
6:20 AM
Danelectro used to make DJ-20 Rocky Road Spinning Speaker, a small pedal with a "ramp" button. You may check ebay, because I think it's out of production.
There's a newer model Big Spender Spinning Speaker that seems worthy to check.
1922 posts
Mar 13, 2019
6:51 AM
The best way to pursue the Hammond sound:

Hammond B3 sound

Sorry, it is NOT small...

I have never heard any pedals, with harp or guitar, that really sounds like a B3. I have heard pedal boards sound like pedal boards trying to sound like a Hammond B3.

PS - I know someone who for a while used an actual rotary speaker with an organ sound pedal. It weighed a lot, strained backs, but still did not make harmonica sound like a true Hammond/Leslie combination.

Doug S.

Last Edited by dougharps on Mar 13, 2019 7:05 AM
1542 posts
Mar 13, 2019
8:02 AM
@LFLISBOA: Thank you, I´ll check that out!

@dougharps: One´s gotta be realistic here. It´s more a question of finding an organ like "bottom", filling out space in a discrete way, not go to town à la Jimmy Smith et al. An organoid sound.
The church organ, as I say above, is quite convincing on the Pog2 and fun to use -- in a limited way. (Unless your playing ... church organ music, in which case I´d recommend a church organ.)
The Hammond touch would give me a broader palette. Even a discretely applied chorus can create a fleeting impression of an organ. (Guided by my poor judgment I tried to come to grips with a recording program some years ago and then I put up this clumsy little piece. At the outset you can hear what I think is a *slight* organ touch to that harmonica with chorus effect in the background. Slight.

But of course, it´s not a B3.
1924 posts
Mar 13, 2019
8:33 AM
XXX I don't know why, but I could not hear the track, even though it appeared to be playing. I will try again later and may add to this response. XXX

EDIT: I hear it now, I had to close and reopen my browser. A streaming page had not released my sound when I closed it. It is pretty effective in your track, primarily in that it is low volume background and also that you are not getting annoying electronic tracking artifacts due to bending notes. Good use of the effect! When hearing guitar players emulate organ it usually sounds best to me when in the background for texture rather than up front in solos. Most guitar players I have heard using organ effects end up playing guitar solos with organ sounds rather than playing convincing organ solos.

I have used effects including chorus in the past. I currently don't use them, but I believe that effects are a viable approach for players to consider. It comes down to what sounds we want to hear and put out to the audience.

Before seeing your reply I started another thread posing questions about using pedals to transform harmonica sounds, including asking how many players use them and to what extent.

I also ramble on with regard to my current views in my own playing and in listening to others.

Good luck in your pedal/sound search. I have always enjoyed any examples of your playing you have posted. I enjoyed your recorded track.

Doug S.

Last Edited by dougharps on Mar 13, 2019 8:49 AM
3690 posts
Mar 15, 2019
10:16 AM
@Martin: In my experience, the octave divider (POG2, MicroPOG) is capable of providing the necessary bottom depth of tone.
1543 posts
Mar 16, 2019
8:41 AM
Thank you kindly, sir. I´ll check out your new tread.
1544 posts
Mar 16, 2019
8:52 AM
@hvyj: No doubt. But that shimmering, fluttering sound (or whatever is the proper word) is needed, in my view. But of course the Pog2 is an interesting piece of gear in itself: after a gig yesterday a guy came up and said that he had looked for the organ player. (We were doing a Pink Floyd number and I went all in with the Pog and "church reverb".) Another said he had heard a cello on some tune, and a third mentioned steel guitar.
Maybe I´m childish but that pleased me quite a bit. (Of course one still has to *play* the thing so you gotta put in something of your own.)

As I recall you use the Strymon pedal, and IIRC, you once posted a sample of a really convincing Hammond sound, so you know something of my gear craving.

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