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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Extended Richter Tuning
Extended Richter Tuning
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Rishió
22 posts
Dec 13, 2018
4:00 AM
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Anyone have experince with this tuning:
C E G C E G C E G C
D G B D G B D G B D
I use Powerbender exclsively but have always been curious about this layout since I like the sound of bent notes, it feels more intuitive for me to play the bottom octave, and I’m attracted the the simplicity and richness of having all three octaves the same.
Can anyone point out disadvantages about this layout?
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dkrulewich
10 posts
Dec 13, 2018
5:48 AM
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Fewer draw chords available.
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ROBERT TEMPLE II
43 posts
Dec 13, 2018
10:58 AM
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I recently acquired an Easttop EDharmonica in "C" and it offers the same advantage of being able to draw bend on holes 1-10, no blow bends or overdraws possible. Only two overblows [X3] make this harp chromatic. I LOVE the advantage to draw bend on all holes 1-10. I have learned the ob/od technique so I am ready for just about any tuning these days. You could also valve the entire drawplate on the "extended richter" as referred to above, and the EDharp, to make the harp[s] entirely blow-bend capable, doing away with the need to learn overblow technique. I do subscribe to the belief that anyone may learn the ob/od technique if they put the necessary time into A: learning to set up their harps to be ob/od friendly and B: Practicing daily for a couple of months to develop the necessary muscles and muscle memory needed to play ob/ods fluently. It DOES necessitate building specific muscles to play ob/ods and anyone who tells you otherwise likely hasn't really explored the needed exersizes needed to develop said muscles and likely gave up after a few half-assed attempts to learn. It is not a technique one learns overnight. At any rate, have FUN with your instruments. There is always more to learn and that is half the fun! Cheers !!!
Last Edited by ROBERT TEMPLE II on Dec 17, 2018 3:49 PM
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Rishió
23 posts
Dec 13, 2018
4:46 PM
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I just discovered and reading about the EDHarp. Now that perks my interest! I’m currently a Powerbender player exclusively (never tried Richter) and can bend all the notes (TB style), play 5 keys pentatonic (Major and Minor so 10 positions) and one blues key. I can’t overblow but I’m more into the pentatonic scales combined with flaverful bending to make for some expressive jamming. The EDHarp sounds really great for improvising on paper, but I wonder how well it scales for an advanced player. I like the repeated symmetrical patterns and all the octaves. Seems like it lacks a bit of variety on the chords. I like the simple bends but I wonder if I’ll miss the saxophone quality of 3rd draw 1/3 of a bend. Anyway, really tempted to try this harp and possibly start over if it resonates - or just stick with Powerbender. I’m a 1 tuning kind of person so I’m not looking for a side tuning - but just the best possible tuning that works for my style of playing. I invested 3 years in Powerbender but I think most of the things I learned will pass over with a few months of going backwards amd learning the scales again.
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ROBERT TEMPLE II
45 posts
Dec 14, 2018
9:11 AM
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@ Risho...You make some interesting points about the EDharp re: chords but I find that a very minor detail as the seamless melodies I have been able to improvise on said EDharp far outweigh any chords I may want. I have played since 1973, am an "advanced" player and excel at improvisation. I play mostly jazz/blues, funk, jump/blues and some reggae. So far, I have found the one EDharp I have, in "C", to be fine for improvising over standard I, IV, V changes. I can also invent what I would call something like the theme to Gilligan's Island T.V. show set in the British Isles [think sea shanties]. The latter involves much tongue blocking/vamping, some very interesting possiblities there using that technique. But, that sort of music is pretty square sounding to my jaded ears though if one likes that jig/reel/polka sort of thing, the EDharp is your friend for sure.
The EDharp is touted as being set up for intuitive playing. Well, maybe for beginners, but I can't speak to that. I've played as a hobbyist and sideman since 1973 or so so many patterns are pretty well-ingrained in my head. I can thank Owsley for some of those patterns. Once I started messing with the bends on the EDharp, I had a major breakthrough in that I could more easily find the notes/intervals I needed/wanted. Throw in the two overblows [x3] and you have a very nice setup. The odd thing is, I had/have to really hunt for the notes in order to play all those simple little ditties one learns first when getting into harp, tunes like Frere Jacques, Three Blind Mice, etc.
Re: alt tunings, I am open to any experimenting, I like the challenge of making X tuning work for me, somehow. So far, I play 12-hole chromatics [mostly jazz/blues but also some bossa] Richter, Melody Maker [least favorite], Natural Minor [very nice for blues and reggae], a hybid using a Lee Oskar A Major blowplate over a L.O. E Natural Minor drawplate [3&7 draw holes now b7s of the harp's blowplate signature. This is also known as the "Dorian Harp", at least that is what I have read, quite useful] Country Tuned harp, the EDharp and I'm about to venture into the half-valved diatonic world as well. "Paddy Richter", no thanks, too square sounding but maybe I just need to mess with it more, I have one of those, too, thanks to the L.O. mix and match possiblities with their reedpaltes and various alt tunings.
I hear the same notes on all the harps so for me the alt tunings just offer different ways to skip off to Grandma's cottage deep in the woods. Indeed, I may run into the big bad wolf or take the wrong path along the way [spelled "wrong notes"] but those little distractions are what point me in the right direction, ultimately, so I learn little tricks along the way and try to utilize those tricks later on, assuming my memory wants to work as I would like it to.
I have yet to try any of the Power tunings. I hear so much music OTHER than blues, jazz or funk on most of those tunings so, so far, those tunings have not been on my wish list. The EDharp, however, has been a more-than-welcome addition to my collection of harps and I fully intend to get as many other keys of that harp [in the Easttop model] as possible. I find it interesting that you saw the potential for the EDharp on paper first, I did the same thing. There were many moments when I first started looking at the EDharp layout when I would mutter to myself, "wait a minute...if this is here and that is there then that means I can play the "blues scale and then blah blah blah". You get the idea.
One more tuning/harp I will invest in next year will be the Seydel Orchestra S. It may be worth your while to take a peek at that tuning, too.
So, enjoy the EDharp when you get one, keep us posted on your ideas, we all learn from each other and that is a beautiful thing. Thanks for your post here, it has me thinking about how I need to practice...MORE!!! Peace
Last Edited by ROBERT TEMPLE II on Dec 14, 2018 9:55 AM
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Rishió
24 posts
Dec 14, 2018
11:39 AM
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Thanks for the detailed post Robert. I’m soaking in any info I find on EDHarp at the moment. So far everything about it sounds great, minus the name, so I ordered the Easttop on amazon to give it a whirl. I’m currently traveling in Taiwan, so it will take a bit to get to me - but really excited about it. At the same time, I really dread it because I’ve been spending so many hours trying to burn in the pentatonic and blues scale pattern on PowerBender in my head, and if I like the ED, I’d have to woodshed alone for quite some time before I jam with people again. I’m hoping that because the scale patterns repeat over 3 octaves, I’ll need to remember less and will be able to burn in the patterns faster than I did with Powerbender. Only been playing 3 years and PB is the first tuning I learned, so naturally it was a slow process because I was learming many fundamentals at once.
Powerbender has been pretty great, but the main negative is that I can’t seem to improvise over different octaves because of the different order of notes on each one. The first octave on Powerbender feels the most intuitive for me, and that’s just like the ED, except the blow 3 note.
I haven’t seen a tuning that I like, on paper, that calls to me more than the ED. It’s like this is what feels just right for my improvational, pentatonic/blues style of playing. I love how there are about 14 Octave Chords (if thats what you call them) versus 8 on the PB. I like how you can play them anywhere to add flavor to some notes without having to worry to much about where they will work or not, because they work everywhere. I like that the same breath-pattern throughout, the 3 octave range, the bendability of every draw note, and the many possible positions. I like that the C hamonica starts on A, because the C hamonica on PB went a bit to high for me at the top end. Missing some chords is not a big deal to me because I like Octaves more. (Perhaps that means I should get Equal-tempered tunings with the ED)
i will probably buy a C, B-Flat and B ED (Seydel Plates) to play all 12 keys if ED feels liek the one (I use the G, A-flat, and A on PB to do the same). I like the middle ground of using 3 harps (rather than 1 or 12) to play all the keys so I can jam with any western instrument in any key without traveling with all 12 which is too many for me. I also like how just having 3 harps forces me to olay in music in different ways depending on the key(s) of the song. I’ve come up with what I call a “slot” system rather than the “position” system because it makes a lot more sense to me. (On a C harp, Slot 1 is C/Am key, Slot 2 is G/Em, Slot 3 is D/Bm, Slot 12 is F/Dm, and Slot 11 is Bb/Gm, etc). On PB, I learned the pattern for 5 slots to be able to play 10 positions (pentatonic) + 1 blues scale per harp. I can do the same, and more, if I want, with the ED because of the layout.
Anyway, just saying that I’m loving the harmonica and look forward to my experience with the ED!
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ROBERT TEMPLE II
68 posts
Jun 22, 2019
2:58 PM
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I finally got into playing my Low D Seydel Orchestra S. it was wonderful playing over an E Minor acidjazz/funk jam track i found. orchestra S is a winner, in my book. I will get the rest of the set, eventually. What's funny is that all the examples of people playing the Orchestra S play really safely, no bends, for instance. i would love to hear others really flowing with one. it really is a cool setup. if one is into playing different tunings, or at least exploring, this is a safe bet, particularly if you like to play in third position. Cheers !!!
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Komuso
818 posts
Jun 22, 2019
5:41 PM
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Looks really interesting.
Who's behind EDHarmonica? Is it Seydel?
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Paul Cohen aka Komuso Tokugawa
HarpNinja - Learn Harmonica Faster
Komuso's Music Website
Last Edited by Komuso on Jun 22, 2019 5:45 PM
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SuperBee
6025 posts
Jun 22, 2019
6:03 PM
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I don’t think it is Seydel per se. I think Wheel knows the people behind the business, but I couldn’t find any identities on the website
https://edharmonica.com/
Easttop are also making the ED harps.
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Komuso
819 posts
Jun 22, 2019
6:32 PM
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Thanks. Just picked one up on Amazon.
I'm in the middle of a HarpNinja redesign/scoping phase so will likely add that tuning to it.
I'd like to know who's behind it though, just for interest. Says patent pending but you can't search on provisional patents afaik. That said, Brendan doesn't think they should be awarded one, and points it to being from Igor Gurskiy
I find the whole secrecy thing a little silly tbh, especially in light of the prior art.
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Paul Cohen aka Komuso Tokugawa
Komuso's Music Website
Last Edited by Komuso on Jun 22, 2019 6:41 PM
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