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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Does anyone tune to ET?
Does anyone tune to ET?
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SweetBlood
59 posts
Apr 08, 2018
9:18 AM
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I am a little bit confused about tuning. I have found old threads here, and read articles on other sites about different tuning methods, but I am still not wrapping my head around using just intonation or a compromised tuning when the rest of the band will be in ET.
I get that chords are out of tune in ET, but the guitars and pianos are playing those same out of tune chords. Doesn't being in tune with the band trump being in tune with yourself?
I have never tuned my harps and I am just getting brave enough to want to try it soon, so I want to make sure I understand all of this before I screw anything up too bad.
Also can anyone recommend an accurate enough tuner that won't cost an arm and a leg?
Last Edited by SweetBlood on Apr 08, 2018 9:19 AM
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arzajac
1853 posts
Apr 08, 2018
9:53 AM
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Hi SweetBlood,
We're only talking about a few cents difference. Most times during a live performance, any given note played on a guitar can be off by that much.
But for some folks, 12 cents difference (major thirds) really sticks out.
It requires a lot more precision to get the chords in tune than it does to tune to ET. Usually cheaper harps are tuned to ET so that they don't have to be too picky and spend any time or effort at the factory tuning them. ET usually means plus or minus six cents from zero. In comparison, you will have to work hard at getting two notes to be in harmony - a fraction of a cent. You should use a tuner (any brand is fine) to get close and then use your ears to fine tune the note into harmony.
See this link for tuning instructions:
http://harp.andrewzajac.ca/tune
P.S. You can't really use a tuner with any accuracy to tune the harmonica. We affect the pitch of the note with our breath and embouchure. Hand someone a tuner and play a note ten times in a row. The person looking at the tuner will probably get many different readings. The trick is to tune one note as a reference and then tune everything in relation to that. So when you play two notes at the same time, they are both affected in the same way by your breath and embouchure. That gets rid of the source of error.
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Custom overblow harps. Harmonica Combs and Tools.
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hvyj
3565 posts
Apr 08, 2018
12:00 PM
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Well, I have my harps tuned to ET and I like it better for the way I play.
A compromised tuned harp will sound "sweeter" played by itself. The chords on an ET tuned harp will "beat" but that effect can be lessened by using lighter breath pressure. If one plays a lot of chords and mostly blues, compromise is ok. And if you mostly play by yourself, it doesn't make any difference.
Personally, I spend about half my playing time in positions above third and even in first, second and third positions I don't usually do much chording.I regularly play other styles of music in addition to blues. I play quite a bit in minor keys typically using fourth and fifth positions in which chords are not very available anyway. I have a very strongly held opinion that ET puts me in better tune with the rest of the band which is important to me because all my playing is with other musicians. If I am playing in fifth position, for example, I don't want blow 2 (which is root) tuned sharp or flat.
But what really made me a believer that ET is better is my experience playing with other harp players at jams. Inevitably, some one thinks that dueling harmonicas is a cool idea (I don't) and another harp player gets called up to play while I am up to play. So, not wanting to seem like a jerk, I go along with it. Typically, the other harp player will be playing a Marine Band. I will be playing a GM or a Hammond or an Olive tuned to A442 ET, (I have my Olives tuned to ET--they don't come that way OOB) and I always sound much more in tune with the band when that happens--not that the other guy sounds out of tune--I just blend much better.
Now, sometimes the other guy is an inexperienced player who does not intonate well and/or plays too hard. But this is not always the situation. I do not have an inflated opinion of my own abilities by any means, but every time I've found myself on stage with another harp player who is playing a compromise tuned harp and I am able to hear well enough to A/B our respective sounds, it was VERY apparent that I sounded in better tune with the other musicians. And that's what has reinforced my strong preference for ET.
On the other hand if you chug a lot or do the choo-choo train thing, compromise or just may be better for you. It depends on what you play and how you play.
Last Edited by hvyj on Apr 08, 2018 12:17 PM
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Thievin' Heathen
996 posts
Apr 08, 2018
1:33 PM
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IMO - Get one of those $25 Korg chromatic tuners and check the tuning of your harps. Set it at 442 and if anything is over 10 cents plus/minus out of tune, do a little scraping, filing or sanding to bring it back around. Anything more entailed and you run the risk of getting sucked down the rabbit hole with the rest of us. It may be too late already.
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Jim Rumbaugh
1299 posts
Apr 08, 2018
4:17 PM
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I have experimented with tuning my harps in the past. Now I'm too lazy.
I "LOVE" just intonation chords.
BUT
I also play 1st position melodies and like 3rd position on the high end. For those two and all positions other than 2nd position, I prefer ET.
One thing I did that I liked was tune 1-4 JUST, and 4 through 10 ET, Basically, I just flattened the 2 blow and 3 draw. That gave me the chords I wanted, and left the rest ET.
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theharmonicaclub.com (of Huntington, WV)
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Rubes
1032 posts
Apr 12, 2018
4:23 AM
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get more harps and have a choice! i like to use my JI & CT harps for more 'bluesy' stuff....but naturally grab an ET for 'other' stuff
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Old man Rubes website
Old Man Rubes at Reverbnation
Dads in Space at Reverbnation
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Gnarly
2472 posts
Apr 12, 2018
8:53 AM
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I work for Suzuki US as their repair guy. Most of their harps are ET.
But I have become fond of Just--even tuning to 5-limit, I don't know if anyone else is doing that.
The harp sounds better if the notes don't fight each other.
I am mainly playing chromatic these days, and that is tuned to ET, but most of the diatonics in my gig kit are compromise tuned to some degree.
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