Every now and then I activate my RP 150 with the intention of programming it for a reasonably clean and warm sound. I fail all the time, no matter what mic or setttings I use, and I´m beginning to lose hope in the machine -- for this particular purpose. It´s still useable for recordings (and great for freakish guitar sounds), with varying degrees of dirtiness, some of them from Richard Hunter´s patches and some of them my own. But they are too trebly, or far out, or distorted.
Still, it´s interesting that this does not work for me: there are quite a few parameters to adjust even in the 150 model, but the outcome of my efforts all sound trebly and thin -- and if I try to compensate for that with bass/mid adjustments, various speaker options etc, it sounds muddy and indistinct.
My question: has anybody here had greater success with an RP, of whatever order, in attaining a workable clean, warm sound -- think "Lee Oskar" for harmonica, or "jazz guitar" or "good sound straight from PA" or some such? I can live with a hint of dirtiness, but no "fuzz".
Would I profit from an upgrade? There are a host of more advanced RP´s out there.
It would be interesting to get some pointers here (outside of "work on your tone").
I use a 255 now but still have my old 150. If I get a chance I will turn it on and pull the settings I have been using. its mainly a bit of EQ, touch of reverb. Just enough to fatten it up slightly.
If you are using a guitar amp, turn all the tone controls to 0 or 1, not 12 o'clock. Do everything you can to minimize the guitar oriented effect of the amp.
Have you experimented with using only one or two effects in your digital chain? It is easier to control just a Phase shifter, or just a phase and EQ, than when you add an amp modeller too.
@shadoe42: Yes, the 150 has the USB. (That´s how you get Richard H´s settings.) I´d be really interested in your suggestions, although you make it sound alarmingly easy: I´ve literally spent hours trying to tweak the EQ into something fatter.
@Chris L: I´ve mainly used it as a direct-to-PA device (which I got the impression was the recommended stratagem), but I´ve tried it into my 5W tube amp -- didn´t work. So, if I should use it in front of my 60W amp, what do you mean by the turning the "tone controls to 1"? On the amp? These things don´t come easy to me. An added aggravation is that I can´t try things in my apartment.
Thank you Dox, I will take this hearty advice under consideration. (Although I can´t promise I will throw away the RP, since it works fine for guitar.)
Do you program the Zoom, or just use presets?
As I say above, my main interest is getting a warm, rather clean sound -- which is not, as you might know, as simple as it sounds. (And I can´t afford a new ribbon mic.)
My Harp settings currently are: Amp model: Dread Acoustic EQ: Mid Boost: 6db, 1600,6db,4000, -1db,90 (Set gain to taste) Reverb:EMT240 Plate: 2,50,80,35 Noisegate: Gate 30,0.0.99
This is when I am running straight to PA thru an old SM57
And I will adjust the EQ and such depending on what the PA sounds like in the venue
@shadoe42: Looks really interesting. I will it a shot soon as I´ve shaken off this bloody flu.
I´m not sure I fully understand those EQ settings (I´m really, really thick in these matters), but maybe it will pan out when I´ve started up the machine and look at the interface.
Presets of zoom g50 are not good for harp...maybe three or four...I program it but is quite simple because the unit are thought to simulate a chain of stompbox, so is pretty straightforward to set up. I don't use the g50 for the clean sound because I have a dedicated EQ, Reverb+Delay in order to satisfy this task (the clean sound isn't a problem for me but maybe a good sound for me can be terribly weird for you), but I've tried some reverb and equalization on g50 and I have to say that is very convincing. Mike Fugazzi has used the g50cdr for a longtime with good results.
Last Edited by Dox on Mar 07, 2018 1:22 PM
@Dox: OK thanks. It wasn´t that expensive so I´ll might try one -- I see can see it is in a store near me. And you are right about the differing values we put on various sounds. I seem to remember from past discussions that Mike F and I have very different notions of good harmonica sound. That´s just the way it is. I find that the clean warm, just ever so slightly distorted sound can be a real toughie o dial in, unless you have the proper mic and a good PA. But of course that´s not the primary interest among blues players.
Hi Martin! It is true that the preferred route is to go with a Keyboard amp or straight to PA. I usually use an acoustic amp with aa 10 inch speaker, and mike it to the PA which gets some sweet tones. The Acoustic amp has a "clean" setting. But I have found I can even get acceptable tone through my Line Six solid state guitar amp by neutralizing all the tone controls. That is why I made the suggestion. Then I use the Digitech RP155 or Zoom G3 to handle all the tone parameters. try to avoid having the sound conditioned by the RP conditioned a second time by the amplifier. Bottom line, what sounds good with guitar sounds horrible with Harp. "Presence" on the RP amp models, in particular, is deadly. Hope this helps. I am not an expert by any means, just sharing some things that allowed me to use the equipment I have at hand.
Martin, the problems is the "slightly distortion" you speak about. If your notion of "warm and clean" includes a kind of saturation, I think you need some preamp section. You can try a very cheap pedal that should work fine: joyo clean glass!!! Is very inexpensive and maybe can help a lot. I didn't tried this one personally but if I well understood your point I think will be useful.
@Chris L: It´s comforting to find another forum member who is not an expert; and you are entirely right on the harmonica/guitar opposition. My RP150 has no "presence", as far as I can see, and maybe that is no bigger loss. Richard H has advice that I see now, and that I hadn´t noted before, namely to drop the volume on the RP and increase on the PA in order to increase its general output, and that seems to be along the same line as what you advocate. I´ll give it a try -- along with Shadoe´s suggested settings. Thanks.
@Dox: I often give this as an example of a perfect, sort of all round sound. It could very well be that he´s going straight to the board here; and there are pelnty of other instances where he domnstrates his gorgeous sound. (I met him once, at a "clinic", and wanted to ask about his equipment, but he just wanted to sell harmonicas.) So would you say that the "Clean glass" pedal is very different from, say, "American sound" from the same factory?
Nice sound (typical of Oskar) but at my ears there is no saturation, is warm, I agree, but without saturation. For me there is a good reverb, a lot of equalization on mid-range frequencies and some compression... someone else hears different things?
Last Edited by Dox on Mar 08, 2018 8:30 AM
According to my culture, saturation is a kind of slightly distortion that sometime can be very subtle and come from valves sound processing. This type of nuance can be added using a fet preamp also, at different level of intensity but for me a warmth sound not necessarily has some saturation. Is difficult to say if Oskar, in the video you posted, use some specific preamp but I would not define this sound a saturated sound, but is a matter of words. The eq section that you can use can come from the joyo American sound. Because it's a preamp you can play with the drive to achieve your goals, maybe can work. I don't know if the American sound and the clean glass are the same beast but in effect can be basically similar...
Last Edited by Dox on Mar 08, 2018 9:00 AM
Ya know, I once upon a time I had an RP pedal but i couldn't ever figure out how program the settings so it would work, and I eventually sold it. I'm usually ok with stuff like that. I a Quadraverb GT that had all kinds of parameters which required a substantial amount of programming and I was ok with that. But I just could never figure out what to do with the RP.
@hvyj: I hear you. It took me a while, and a computer literate friend, before I started fiddling with it. Once you´re there it can be kinda interesting -- if the sounds you produce does not have to be applicable to live situations, but just for recording or for fun. You use a program called X Edit. (Too late in your case I see now ...)
Here is a sound sample, some random noodling, of what I´ve achieved so far in trying to find a "plain" sound on the RP. Not disastrous, but not very impressive. The bottom octave sounds relatively OK, I guess, but it´s a bit dull. Then on the upper notes it gets thin, trebly and generally unpleasant. The cupping is tight to semi-tight; just en EV mic, straight into Audacity.
Second sample is just for reference. This is when you start adding effects. It gets funnier then -- even easy! -- but, of course, unusable live. However, with some careful tweaking this could be a blues sound for recording. But, as I say above, my aim now is for clean and warm.
Both sounds nice! For the clean sound have you used eq and reverb or others things also? Why you say the second sound can't be used live?
Last Edited by Dox on Mar 09, 2018 2:52 AM
Thanks Dox: Yes, the clean is just EQ and some reverb -- maybe the tiniest touch of delay as well. This is home-cooked. Unfortunately the suggested settings above from Shadoe42 did not work at all for me. Maybe I misunderstood him, but it was relly very trebly. Now I´m at wits end -- still unsatisfied -- and maybe even the end of what to expect from an RP150?
My guess is using that second sound live, it will only give me grief in the all too familiar form of feedback. But I will give it a try with a friends PA this weekend.
Nice, so the first sound proves the fact that we don't necessarily need a kind of saturation (in term of preamp use as discussed) to get a clean and warmth sound. But this is a good news, less is more hehehe
A bit off topic, Martin, but I want to note that EVERY example of your playing that you have posted on MBH shows a remarkable mastery of harmonica. You have sounded great every time! If you gigged anywhere near my town, I would come out to hear you play regardless of what you played through.
I understand searching to find the perfect sound equipment to convey your music (Gear Acquisition Syndrome), but perhaps you should accept a wider range of acceptable sounds for your playing. Your search has gone on for quite a while, and you must be spending a considerable amount of money in your quest.
Your playing supersedes the various gear in my opinion. ----------
I agree with dougharps. Sounds you posted here and in others posts are very good. If you are looking for clean and chicago sounds and you can handle the feedback in live situation, you don't need anything else.
@Dougharps and Dox: You are way too kind of my fumbling efforts! But I thank you sincerely, and with a becoming touch of bad conscience, since most of what I do here is voicing my perennial dissatisfaction with things. Sound mostly. But the harmonica is a devil when it comes to sound, from clean to distorted. If I´d known ...
As usual, money would be a rather large part of the solution. But no, Dougsharps, I´m living under a rather restricted budget so I don´t think I spend as much as many others. (A few Beyerdynamic M160 ribbon mics would certainly be in my possession if I hade the dough!) Of course, like in this instance with the RP, I try to maximize the potential in the stuff I already own, but alas, I´m also very ignorant. Which is way this is such an excellent place to meet nice people with knowledge!
Last Edited by Martin on Mar 09, 2018 12:24 PM
Hi Martin. I second Doug here (hi Doug!), great playing. You seem to have overlooked Richard Hunter, the undiputed king of RP (and other) modelling pedal settings for harmonica. His patches are for sale, and resaonably priced in my view, given the effort he puts in. Details at hunterharp.com
Tony Eyers Australia www.HarmonicaAcademy.com everyone plays...
@Harmonicatunes: Thank you, and yes, shadoe42 is right: I bought Richard´s settings right off the bat. Without them the pedal was completely useless (for harmonica). Have had some trouble with them live and when attemting higher volume, but they are excellent in their own right. And not at all expensive, given the time it takes to fiddle with the pedal for a technophobe like I. But Richard has a slight a proclivity for a more treble oriented sound than what is my preference -- and I think this also comes through in his new settings for the Fender Mustang amps -- and he´s perhaps not primarily interested in the "clean & warm" aspect of the harmonica but more leaning to the bluesy side. That is his inalienable right, and when/if I buy a Fender Mustang or upgrade to a better RP I will contact him pronto.
Martin, I've got a RP360 from a friend of mine. I'm really curious to add the hunter's patches and look at sound ASAP!
Last Edited by Dox on Mar 13, 2018 3:36 PM
@Dox: Go right ahead -- and I wish you best of luck. The 360 probably has droves of settings that aren´t in mine, so who knows, maybe you can find a "neutral", warm sound there as well. For both guitar and harmonica. Please report your findings!
@Harmonicatunes: I have a tendency to longwindedness, I know. (Could be that it´s a foreign language?)
I have an RP-355 that I picked up on Craigslist for $50. It's good for hours of making trippy noises out in my shed, but I've never bothered to carry it out and play it in public. USB to the computer is the easiest interface for exploring the possibilities with that pedal. I also have a ZOOM MS-70CDR that I use all the time for some reverb and delay. I also picked up a Digitech Vocal 300 out of the Craigslist Free Stuff. The guy said the volume pedal was broken but I can't find anything wrong with it. It has all kinds of effects and XLR in/outputs. The Digitechs are fun to mess around with, but there's really not anything there I want to use in public. I may yet find a rotary sound I like.
