agarner
3 posts
Nov 20, 2017
9:48 AM
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So I was messing around with my F harp today and stumbled across the 3 overblow. I want to get better at the high harps because I play them poorly and they sound dead or squeaky (no tone) when I play them. Gotta practice your weak points right?!
As I was trying to get 4,5,6 overblows to sound at all, I accidentally overblew the 3 hole. It didn't give me a missing note (same as 4 blow), but I did uncover something I had never tried. I have trouble with the overblows on higher harps (shorter reeds?) but the 3 hole was simple (longer reed?)
This will be a 3 pronged question:
1) Any advice on playing the higher harps? Changes in embouchure, more gentle airflow? On any key over C, my 2 hole bend seems breathy and weak. Yet I have a powerful 2 hole bend on all other keys.
2) Overblows on higher harps?
3) Has anyone used the 3 overblow? Does it have a place in your playing?
Thanks!
Last Edited by agarner on Nov 20, 2017 9:51 AM
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AppalachiaBlues
85 posts
Nov 20, 2017
10:31 AM
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Spend some time with a Seydel Favorite in High A. Then go back to the F.
Last Edited by AppalachiaBlues on Nov 20, 2017 10:31 AM
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ridge
714 posts
Nov 20, 2017
10:33 AM
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1) Every key and every harmonica is a little different. To keep with the same mindset of practicing weak points, keep working more exclusively with higher key harps. It sounds like you're already making that effort.
My guess is it's a combination of harmonica set up and technique. For me, the higher key harps can be gapped a little tighter without choking the reeds prematurely. Keep in mind when draw bending it is the blow reed filling in those "missing" notes. So the set up of the blow reed is important for getting a nice strong, controllable, distinct draw bends.
Conversely, when getting an overblow to sound, we are actually making the draw reed vibrate at a higher frequency and preventing the corresponding blow reed from activating.
2. It's going to be some combination of technique and set up of your harmonica. If you can hit overblows on demand on different harps, then I think it may be more of a set up issue than technique. I know Andrew Zajac has some good videos about working with individual reed plates to understand the mechanics of the blow and draw reeds. I suggest taking a look at this nice little bit about reed shaping or just generally check out his blog
3. I've used 3 overblow, but not really practically. It would give you additional opportunities to add expression instead of using 4 blow as you've already gathered. In certain positions this is a nice to have.
I wish I had all the words to adequately describe all this stuff with the confidence that it makes total sense to the reader. I hope this gets you closer to what you're looking for. Keep working at it! Identifying where you're weak and acknowledging it is a very big component to the whole process!
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Ridge's YouTube
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The Iceman
3392 posts
Nov 20, 2017
11:07 AM
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No need to utilize an OB if it just duplicates a note that is a "given".
As to change in embouchure as you play higher key harmonicas, if you embrace the "x marks the spot on the roof of your mouth" target point with which to arc your tongue towards, one merely moves these target spots slightly forward. For example, when I play "D", those target points are just slightly more towards the front of the mouth than an "A" or "Bb". High "F" is slightly forward from the "D". High "G" is slightly forward from the "F".
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The Iceman
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WinslowYerxa
1480 posts
Nov 21, 2017
8:59 AM
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One cool thing about Overblow 3 is that it can be bent *up* to the flat 5, as opposed to bending down to it from Draw 4. And you can play Blow 3 at the same time.
Here's an example.
===========
Winslow
Harmonica lessons with one of the world's foremost experts
Check out my blog and other goodies at winslowyerxa.com
Harmonica For Dummies, Second Edition with tons of new stuff
Last Edited by WinslowYerxa on Nov 21, 2017 9:00 AM
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Gnarly
2348 posts
Nov 21, 2017
9:56 AM
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Well shut my mouth.
This is the same Winslow Yerxa who demonstrated bending 2 and 3 draw together for me at SPAH this year, producing the major II chord, the "V of V" that is missing in cross harp.
Nice job, Professor!
Last Edited by Gnarly on Nov 21, 2017 9:57 AM
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The Iceman
3397 posts
Nov 21, 2017
2:16 PM
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Winslow - I didn't know about OB3 capabilities...
However, just because it is possible to do this on OB3, do you know of any recording or live performance where the musician actually utilizes this?
There are a few things that the harmonica CAN do from a theoretical standpoint, but some of these have never found their way to actual performance value...
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The Iceman
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pythonbeg
45 posts
Nov 21, 2017
7:54 PM
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Winslow, that is extraordinary. Are there any other notes that can be bent up?
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WinslowYerxa
1483 posts
Nov 21, 2017
11:37 PM
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Larry -
I don't know of anyone using this in a composition or recorded performance. However, the snippet I posted certainly demonstrates its musical validity and utility.
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Winslow
Harmonica lessons with one of the world's foremost experts
Check out my blog and other goodies at winslowyerxa.com
Harmonica For Dummies, Second Edition with tons of new stuff
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WinslowYerxa
1484 posts
Nov 21, 2017
11:44 PM
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@pythonbeg -
All overblows have the potential to bend up. It helps to be able to isolate the reed completely. You can hear me bending overblows up one and two semitones on this old recording where I used a Discrete Comb harp to play in A minor on a standard-tuned A harp:
The Tinge, Part 1
That said, I have encountered well set up standard harps where it was possible to raise OB6 by as much as three semitones.
===========
Winslow
Harmonica lessons with one of the world's foremost experts
Check out my blog and other goodies at winslowyerxa.com
Harmonica For Dummies, Second Edition with tons of new stuff
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The Iceman
3399 posts
Nov 22, 2017
7:05 AM
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Winslow states "the snippet I posted certainly demonstrates its musical validity and utility."
No argument there, Winslow. However, personally I view these types of harmonica possibilities as interesting from a text book standpoint - "can be done on the diatonic" - and also "can be used musically", but it falls just slightly short of actually being used for anything more than a snippet to listen to in regards to proving it being possible to use. I still wait to hear someone actually use it outside of a classroom demo...
Let me know when this happens, OK?
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The Iceman
Last Edited by The Iceman on Nov 23, 2017 8:12 AM
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pythonbeg
46 posts
Nov 22, 2017
7:53 AM
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Winslow, thanks for the information. I have a whole new avenue to investigate now.
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the_happy_honker
278 posts
Nov 23, 2017
4:25 PM
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Ca. 1930: "Bent notes are interesting from a text book standpoint, no argument there, Winslow. But they don't sound at all like natural notes on the harmonica. They fall just slightly short of actually being used for anything." Let me know when this happens OK?
Ca. 1960: "I personally view third, fourth and fifth positions as interesting from a text book standpoint, no argument there, Winslow, but all the notes you need musically are available in first and second positions."
Mid-1980s: "I personally view these overblow possibilities as interesting from a text book standpoint. I still wait to hear someone actually use them outside of a classroom demo. Let me know when this happens, OK?
2000s: "Grunting and snorting into a harmonica, so-called beatboxing - falls just slightly short of actually being used for anything more than a snippet to listen to in regards to proving it possible to use."
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ridge
715 posts
Nov 23, 2017
6:21 PM
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Touché! Way to put it into perspective, honker!
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Ridge's YouTube
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The Iceman
3402 posts
Nov 24, 2017
4:13 AM
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pretty clever and a nice attempt (from a text book standpoint) there, honker!
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The Iceman
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harpwrench
1121 posts
Nov 24, 2017
8:00 AM
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Listen to Hummel's solo on Linda Lu (golden state blues cd), for a context you could use a 3 OB.
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www.spiersharmonicas.com
High Performance Harmonicas
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The Iceman
3403 posts
Nov 24, 2017
10:26 AM
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not interested, per se, in a context for its use...mostly interested in hearing it actually used in more than a classroom type example.
But thanks nonetheless, harpwrench!
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The Iceman
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