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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
My harp frustration (video samples).
My harp frustration (video samples).
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Tommy the Hat
662 posts
Jul 30, 2017
3:39 PM
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Here are two videos posted reluctantly in an attempt to show my current state.
First a little history. I started playing around '89 or '90 and at the time I was playing to/copying from recorded music. SBWII, and Little Walter mostly. Then I purchased Harp Attack and Gindicks Rock and Blues book with CD ( may have been cassette at the time since I had no CD in the car for sure). I got good at playing along with "Down Home Blues."
I practiced techniques till my head hurt and I played along to everything trying to copy it. I must have listened to Harp Attack 1000 times! After about two years or maybe three years tops, I stopped playing. Then around 2010 or 2011, I began again and also joined this forum. I began picking things up from Adam's videos and purchased some Tabs too. I learned more about technique and got everything down pretty tight. Lip pursing, tongue blocking, single notes, octaves you name it. I could learn well from tab too. Then I made a few videos posted on my old (deleted) YouTube channel and maybe here too. I got some "good Jobs" as well as some soft critique but mostly I got compliments on my blues singing rather than my harp playing. Frustrating!
I've always sung but never studied it. I stopped the harp again and left the forum in 2012 and studied singing for a couple of years then went deeper for 2 more years of private lessons and kept going. Oddly enough I stopped singing blues and switched to old school R&B and soul, Motown etc. I was tired of being coined "a blues singer" as I thought my voice could do more. I upped my game. Recently I picked up the harp again and after a few weeks (couple of months?) my playing is probably better than where I left off but still not up to par.
The problem? My techniques are honed ( in my opinion) and I can do or copy most anything. I can fake copy along with songs. pretty well too. If I have tab and some instructional notes I'm good to go as in the first video below. But on my own or playing to a backing track or a band? Well you'll see from the second video.
Ok, so the first video is me from 5 years ago something i posted here. It wasn't made to show my harp playing it was made to show my new "Bottle O' Blues" mic and a Pignose amp. I learned the song from tab I think but can't remember. I know I'm not reading anything because I have no glasses on and I can't see for shit.
The second video I made today. I looked for a backing track on Youtube and just played along. I didn't try to make a perfect video but that's the point. This is me as if someone asked me to play along. To me it's just not right. Tasteless and cockeyed, out of sink and just newbee like. Sometimes it's better and sometimes it's worse. I did a one take just to show "me" before going back to fix it. I'm playing a Bb Hohner Deluxe.
Honestly? I feel I wasted too much time practicing techniques and stuff like that rather than actually playing. Something I always warned against when I used to coach fighters.
I only have Dropbox links because I can't get these loaded into any of my usual hosting sites.
Copying music
Improv
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Tommy
My YouTube vocal covers
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Last Edited by Tommy the Hat on Jul 31, 2017 4:59 AM
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dougharps
1529 posts
Jul 30, 2017
4:44 PM
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Thanks for sharing where you are at in your harp journey! I wish people were not so reluctant to share.
From what I know from my own progress over time is that music will always offer new challenges to enjoy so long as I still am breathing. Have fun playing!
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Doug S.
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Tommy the Hat
663 posts
Jul 30, 2017
5:57 PM
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Thanks Doug. I posted those vids to show where I'm at and what I don't like about it. I'm open to any critique or suggestions too. You're right tho, more people should post songs.
At the moment I'm trying to revamp my practice and maybe learn differently from before. I'll see what happens, but right now I'm not very happy with my free style/improv playing. I need to spend more time repeating the same song or improv over and over till I'm blue in the face. Like with singing.
I don't like copying songs and, like a lot of players, trying to learn a song note for note. That's been done by the original artist, why would I want to copy him/her? I prefer, if someone covers a song, hearing what THEY can do with it. And as for me, I like to do covers as "my version" of the song. If I want the original I'll listen to the CD! I do try to copy riffs/licks or lines but I don't try to learn the whole song.
Ok...except "Help Me" but ho doesn't try to play Help Me? HA!
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Tommy
My YouTube vocal covers
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Last Edited by Tommy the Hat on Jul 30, 2017 6:16 PM
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Sundancer
143 posts
Jul 30, 2017
7:15 PM
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Tommy the Hat - well done amigo. You're getting up & down that whistle nicely, with good tone. And I hear ya about not wanting to just play covers, so to speak. But there are some songs that aren't really covers because they came prior to recorded music - i.e. St. Louis Blues. It has a great 12 bar rhythm with a funky 16 bar bridge - and it will test your bending like crazy. You have emboldened me to put my own version of it up on this site soon. Gracias.
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slaphappy
305 posts
Jul 30, 2017
8:20 PM
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becoming a good improviser isn't easy.
you have to learn the harp really well, then you have to have good time, melody, rhythm, harmony, vocabulary, phrasing, a sense of push and pull, tension and release. Musical sensibility takes time and sustained effort and well... years and years and years in my case.
give yourself credit for getting as far as you've gotten!
I highly recommend Dave Barrett's improvising lessons. He provides a structured approach and you really can't go wrong following his chorus forms method.
oh and BTW, frustration just means you're on your way to a breakthrough. It's part of the process, if you're not getting frustrated once in a while then you probably are coasting a bit is what I think
I also copy the hell out of everything and have no scruples about it. It works it's way into your own musical DNA eventually anyway.
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4' 4+ 3' 2~~~
-Mike Ziemba
Harmonica is Life!
Last Edited by slaphappy on Jul 30, 2017 8:25 PM
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Tommy the Hat
664 posts
Jul 31, 2017
5:52 AM
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Thanks guys.
Slaphappy wrote:
"I also copy the hell out of everything and have no scruples about it. It works it's way into your own musical DNA eventually anyway."
I do this too and I feel I can pretty much copy most licks or riffs I hear. As a CD is playing I copy licks and I think I do ok. But it goes away when I try to play alone. At times I can just noodle and be not to bad. But most times it's like the video I posted to the backing track. The licks disappear and induing where to put them gets hazy etc. I think it's tension. Too much "thinking" as it isn't second nature yet.
Sundancer, yes I understand that some songs need to be played as the original. There are some songs that are that way vocally also. But on the harp, I tend to not play those types of tunes much. Also don't play a lot of melodies or 1st position songs either. I just like to kind of do my thing in the style of the original with blues tunes. One thing I can't seem to get right ( but I've been trying) is doing my own thing with "Help Me." At one time I played that song note for note but right now I kind of lost some of both solo's a bit. Let's just say they got sloppy. The rest of the song is still intact. But that's not what I want, it's just that it's stuck in my head! I want to do my own thing (but still recognizable as Help Me) but can't seem to get it. I would like to play the harp more to the rhythm/beat of the bass and guitar on that song. If you understand what I mean.
But it all comes back to my point in my original post and vids.
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Tommy
My YouTube vocal covers
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Last Edited by Tommy the Hat on Jul 31, 2017 5:59 AM
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1847
4342 posts
Jul 31, 2017
8:01 AM
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i listened to the first track, that was quite good.
my only suggestion would be to practice with out the mic. just focus on the riffs.
sometimes a slowdowner can help. just keep at it.
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Django
31 posts
Jul 31, 2017
9:21 AM
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My suggestion would be to play along with harp songs in youtube at a slower speed(.75% or less) until you are sure you are nailing it and then play it at the same slow speed with a metronome or backtrack.
When you improvise try to fit in licks you've learned until they become 2nd nature. Be honest with yourself and go slow and IN TIME.
I noticed on your first video you played with no metronome or backtrack as a reference.
Your second video was with a backtrack and it sounds like you were struggling to play in time.
Make every note count and play it all real slow so you understand where the notes lie in relation to the time and practice over backtracks frequently as I mentioned before.
You've got a real good foundation I think and you just need to reinforce it with tightness and confidence IE: control and good time and groove.
I hope this helps.
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Tommy the Hat
665 posts
Jul 31, 2017
9:59 AM
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@1847...actually I don't normally use a mic. Hardly ever. That video, as I said was from 5 years ago and at the time I just bought a mic and a pig nose amp. I only made the video to show the mic. Thanks for the listen :)
Django,
Thanks, and yes that was helpful. I will look into those things. I did notice the same thing as I listened to the playback. That sort of struggle or tension and trying to keep up. But I let it go and didn't re-record because I wanted to show "me" raw and as if someone said "show me something" on the spot. I can usually find and keep with, the beat; especially if I know the song. However (if I want to make excuses) I wasn't familiar with the backing track. I grabbed a Bb harp, sat at the laptop and looked on YouTube for a blues backing track in F. Then I hit record and went for it, and thats the video you see.
I will definitely pay attention to timing. I always do. However I think that what may have been the issue more than the timing was too much thought into where to go next or what I wanted to do or the sounds I wanted to get out. That ruined the flow and I wasn't on auto pilot. That causes hesitation thus bad timing. Like daydreaming..lol. So I need to work on that via your suggestions. The licks have to become second nature lest they throw off my timing.
Thanks again
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Tommy
My YouTube vocal covers
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KingoBad
1703 posts
Jul 31, 2017
10:49 AM
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Tommy,
Nice job for posting this stuff. Yes, it can be painful to put your stuff out there, but it's good for you. Especially if you want to get better.
My suggestions for what they are worth:
Learn your favorite songs to play all the way through - singing and all. You can appriximate phrases if your chops aren't there yet, but get the song and feeling down
You need the vocabulary of the musical phrases intertwined wih the vocals to see what these guys were doing in the song. There s a richness in WHY they were using those phrases in those spots. Building a vocabulaty of expression is important.
That is why learning the songs note by note is important. It s your apprenticeship in the blues. you might never play it again the same way because your style departs from it, but it is important to internalize.
I myself have stagnated my own progress by refusing to learn more songs. I do write music and have to come up with new accompaniments for other musician's songs (which is fun and creative). But often wish I had a richer well from which to draw.
Also, I think you need to give yourself an honest listen again on your techniques. As you may not like your technique from your first video, you may find that your second vid, in a few years, will make you feel the same.
You are a continuum, and you will always be working on your techniques. That is why it is always good to solicit feedback, because you just don't have the ability to hear it yet.
Good job though! The second video has lots of good stuff!
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Danny
Last Edited by KingoBad on Jul 31, 2017 10:51 AM
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Tommy the Hat
666 posts
Jul 31, 2017
11:22 AM
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Thanks Danny, I appreciate the listen and the advice. I think this thread is already helpful to me, and believe it or not it has caused me to come to a slap in the head realization. I have my own experience wrong and it has probably been frustrating me more.
This morning I was reading my above post, that I starting this thread with, and read my history. I started learning the harp in 1990. THAT has been in my head for many years and over time I started to believe that I have been playing for a long time! I began in 1990 (maybe late 89) but I stopped maybe a year later, or two. Also, this morning I remembered my first post here when I began playing harp again and joined this forum around 2011. I posted a clip of me playing and I remember saying "I haven't played in 20 years, this is where I'm at.
Ok...fast forward. A guy at work wanted to learn harmonica a few months back just before I retired, and I helped him. I had harps sitting for years in my in my car/glove box even though I never played them so I brought them out and showed him a few things. Eventually I explained bending and pointed him to Adam and a few other sites. And I gave him 2 of my books (Gindick and Barrett). The point is, during conversation I told him I had been playing for 27 years!! I was counting from 1990. Duh. After creating this thread I realized that I have actually only been playing about 2....Maybe 3...years tops. Idiot! I actually started to believe I had been playing for many years! I fooled myself into thinking I had more experience and I was adding to my frustration of not advancing. Probably because I always had harps in the car and that made me feel like "well I can just grab one and play if I hear a song that moves me come on the radio."
Added to that is the fact that (not to brag) if you were in front of me and asked me to do something...if you demonstrate it, I can probably do it. If not then I'm betting in a few minutes I could. That always makes me feel more advanced. That drives me crazy then when I can't put things together well logically in a song yet I can copy things easily. I'm feeling a disconnect.
So I need to back up a bit.
Silly me.
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Tommy
My YouTube vocal covers
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Last Edited by Tommy the Hat on Jul 31, 2017 11:26 AM
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