ScottK
101 posts
Jun 25, 2017
9:39 AM
|
On my A harp (MB Crossover) having a bit of trouble with the 10 blow Reed. I've been working on getting a good 10 overblow and the reed seemed stuck or clogged like I need to tap the harp to get the spit out.
Couple other holes were getting funky so I took it apart cleaned it and at first sounded great but after a bunch of 10 hole blows the hole again was stuck on and off. The rest of the harp sounds much better after cleaning.
When I had it apart the 10 blow reed seemed right in the slot and no gap or very slight gap. So I'm guessing I either have a very tiny something making it stick in the slot and should take it apart and carefully plink the reed a bunch of times and check the sound and see if it releases anything unseen which thank you to superbee helped me on another harp draw reed.
And I'm wondering if I should widen the gap slightly and maybe by plinking it a bunch of times this may do naturally anyways?
Do I sound like I'm on the right track?
Any thoughts?
Thanks!
Last Edited by ScottK on Jun 25, 2017 9:41 AM
|
The Iceman
3197 posts
Jun 25, 2017
11:03 AM
|
10 hole can be over drawn, but usually not OB...
Gap too tight = reed choking
----------
The Iceman
|
hvyj
3342 posts
Jun 25, 2017
12:49 PM
|
Yeah, try opening the gap a little.
If the reed responds when you blow very soft but not when you blow harder, that definitely indicates that the gap is too tight.
BTW, How is it responding when you play the half step and whole step blow bends? I ask this because the gap on the OPPOSITE reed will affect the response of a reed that is being bent.
|
ScottK
103 posts
Jun 25, 2017
2:09 PM
|
Thanks all.
hvyj- the response of the half and whole blow bends was good right after I cleaned then it got stuck again. And even when cleaned it seemed I had to blow very hard to get the whole bend though it was easier. Ill open the gap and see. What should I look for in the opposite reed? Or change in that reed if my changing the blow reed doesn't solve issue?
|
hvyj
3346 posts
Jun 25, 2017
9:26 PM
|
Well, I'm no expert at this, but tightening the gap on the other reed in the hole (the reed opposite the reed you are trying to bend) will make it easier to bend and easier to more precisely intonate the bend(s). But you have to be careful not to tighten the gap too much or the opposite reed won't respond properly when you play it. There's sort of a balancing between the gaps on each of the reeds that you need to achieve.
Last Edited by hvyj on Jun 25, 2017 9:42 PM
|
SuperBee
4752 posts
Jun 26, 2017
1:54 PM
|
I'd probably try opening it a little. Maybe just 1 or 2 thou. When they're really tight like that it doesn't take much to stop them playing. Just condensation can do it.
Hvyj makes a good comment about the interaction of the reeds. It's the 'other' reed making a lot of the sound when you bend. I've seen a few harps where people tried to set the gap but ignored the other reed.
its often possible to make a poorly setup harp play worse.
|
1847
4241 posts
Jun 26, 2017
2:05 PM
|
come on you guys the reed is fractured.
|
SuperBee
4753 posts
Jun 26, 2017
2:10 PM
|
Well no man, Scott says it plays 'on and off'. If it was fractured it would just be 'off'
|
1847
4242 posts
Jun 26, 2017
2:12 PM
|
t the 10 blow reed seemed right in the slot
needs a new reed
|
hvyj
3350 posts
Jun 26, 2017
2:48 PM
|
What makes you conclude that the reed is fractured? If it was, it would sound sick. Just because it freezes doen't mean it's broken. The OP never indicated that the reed didn't sound right and high register reeds can be temperamental anyway.
|
SuperBee
4754 posts
Jun 26, 2017
2:48 PM
|
Read carefully again. You'll get it eventually.
Took the harp apart because 10 blow stopped playing. Cleaned it. Put it back together. It worked but after a few blows the 10 blow started jamming again. Worked on and off.
When the harp was apart for cleaning he noticed reed was right in the slot and no gap or very slight gap..
note, it was after this observation he put the newly cleaned harp back together and the reed worked.
Broken reeds stay broken
|
1847
4244 posts
Jun 26, 2017
3:28 PM
|
nope.... it has a slight fracture.
----------
. xar
|
SuperBee
4755 posts
Jun 26, 2017
5:30 PM
|
Cmon bob, there is no way to know that onnthe evidence.
I can't totally rule out reed damage but it doesn't sound like it. Scott cleaned the harp and at first it sounded great.
Broken reeds don't get intermittently better from cleaning them.
It's obviously gapped too tight. It maybe possible it's been bent out of shape but I've had them do exactly what Scott describes and nothing materially wrong with the reed.
It's a lot easier to try opening thevgap a little than to jump straight into replacing a reed
|
1847
4245 posts
Jun 26, 2017
5:44 PM
|
50 cents he will never get another note out of it. not another note.
you know that as well as i do.
----------
.
|
hvyj
3353 posts
Jun 26, 2017
6:01 PM
|
In my experience high register reeds not uncommonly blank out if they are not adjusted properly or if they are improperly adjusted. Of course there has been a lot of recent internet chatter about intelligent alien life on Jupiter's moons and perhaps alien technology is interfering with high register harmonica reeds--or maybe the reed is broken. Sort of hard to tell one way or the other, huh?
|
ScottK
104 posts
Jun 26, 2017
8:59 PM
|
Took it apart tonight. Before i took the reed plates apart i checked and the 10 blow still was not responding well. Also the 9 not so great. Took apart reed plates Checked the reeds and slots, no gap, held up to light, there was light all around the edges of reed, pushed up lightly from below reed a bit, then plinked at least 100 times or so both the 10 and 9 blow. Both reeds now have a tiny gap.
The draw 10 and 9 reeds had a tiny gap and I left as is. The 6 blow was dull sounding when I plinked at each reed, so i plinked that reed some and it got a better tone.
Put it together, sounded great. took outside to my car- since the fam is sleeping, played it for a while, no probs so far. able to easily get the 10 blow half bend, whole is harder but workin on it (I'm new at it) 9 blow played better. All the other blow and draws were good, the 2 draw seems a little weak,not so bad in tone but need to draw harder than it seems I should, and the 8 draw, so I'll check those out later.
So 15 minutes of playing so far, still sounds good and in tune to my ears. Successful venture so far. Will play more tomorrow...
It's Jupiter's moons for sure.
Last Edited by ScottK on Jun 26, 2017 9:04 PM
|
SuperBee
4756 posts
Jun 26, 2017
9:20 PM
|
American cents I guess you mean.
I can still take that bet, especially as it's you who'll be paying out. That will be 66 Aussie cents.
|
Gnarly
2248 posts
Jun 26, 2017
9:56 PM
|
Yeah, I could have made some money too--10 blow doesn't break much, in my experience.
I've seen 9 blow gone with heavy hitting blues players, but I don't remember doing very many 10 blow reeds on diatonic harmonicas.
|
1847
4246 posts
Jun 26, 2017
11:25 PM
|
the exchange rate is in my favor..... net 38 cents to you.
after commission and pay pal fees perhaps 23 cents profit to you.
we could do double or nothing, but i want to hear 10 blow at the proper pitch.
plus or minus 23 cents.
|
SuperBee
4757 posts
Jun 26, 2017
11:51 PM
|
The pressure is on the OP.
While we're waiting, maybe we could take side bets on the key of harp Rice Miller recorded with most often.
|
SuperBee
4758 posts
Jun 27, 2017
12:00 AM
|
Oh, sorry I didn't see that ScottK had come through with an update.
Good news!
Scratch that Sonny Boy question then.
Unless you want to play of course.
|
ScottK
105 posts
Jun 27, 2017
5:34 AM
|
I will check about that proper pitch.
Might I suggest to bypass the loss of cents from the exchange rate and PayPal that a quest should be undertaken instead.
1 shark tooth (or piece of fin) from the Great Barrier Reef for an in tune blow
1 hair of an outback kangaroo for a good half step blow bend
For a consistant and in tune whole step blow bend a glass of the finest ale at Prancing Pony Brewery.
And if a quest to down under is not possible then one bald eagles feather,a speck of stone from George Washington's nose on mount Rushmore, And a grande White mocha from Starbucks will do.
Last Edited by ScottK on Jun 27, 2017 6:01 AM
|
1847
4247 posts
Jun 27, 2017
9:50 AM
|
Funny you should mention Mount Rushmore…....... we were just awarded the contract
To remove President Washington’s face from the mountain….. it will be replaced with
Donald Trump. …….. His head will need to be twice as big as the others, so we will also need to removeThomas Jefferson as well..
|
hvyj
3355 posts
Jun 27, 2017
9:51 AM
|
To simplify things, Andrew Zajac sells a reed gapping tool which is a little brass rod with a curved end. It allows you to open the gap on a draw reed without disassembling the harp. You can also use it to tighten the gap on a blow reed without disassembling the harp. Very handy little tool.
My tool kit consists of a couple of small screwdrivers, a feeler gauge and this gapping tool. I'm no technician, but I can adjust the gaps on my reeds and align reeds when necessary. Oh, I also have a little file. I don't tune my harps, myself, but if I absolutely need to i can raise or lower the pitch of an out of tune reed in a pinch if I don't have time to send the harp to a competent tech for repair. Over the years one picks up certain survival skills....
Last Edited by hvyj on Jun 27, 2017 9:58 AM
|
hvyj
3356 posts
Jun 27, 2017
9:56 AM
|
@1847: quit joking around and pay off your bet to SB. PayPal will compute the exchange rate.
|
SuperBee
4761 posts
Jun 27, 2017
9:10 PM
|
i got a message from PP that 1847 sent me .5 USD
thats pretty funny man!
|
1847
4248 posts
Jun 27, 2017
10:23 PM
|
let the good times roll........
|
SuperBee
4762 posts
Jun 28, 2017
5:44 AM
|
When a person in California pays me $0.50 I get $0.63
When I pay a person in Berkeley $280, it costs me $390
|
ScottK
106 posts
Jun 28, 2017
5:47 AM
|
That's strange, I also got a notice from PP asking if I wanted to arrange for a 10 hole to blow out every 2 weeks and make that transaction from 1847 to superbee a scheduled reccuring payment?!
And I got a charge for a pack of chisels from Mount Rushmore? Weird...
hvyj- thanks for the tip on the tool I'm ordering one.
Last Edited by ScottK on Jun 28, 2017 5:48 AM
|
dougharps
1479 posts
Jun 28, 2017
6:08 AM
|
A number of years ago I bought a tool kit that included a gapping tool: a bent paper clip. With it you can gently adjust gaps on the top or bottom reed plate without disassembling the harmonica.
Since then I have acquired a number of these tools so I always have one handy.
With the very short high pitched reeds I still take off the covers to see what I am doing, because the very short reeds are more easily damaged by smaller movements with a tool.
----------
Doug S.
|
SuperBee
4763 posts
Jun 28, 2017
7:12 AM
|
That is nice ScottK, if you could get those regular arrangements sorted out it'll make my reef expedition come around sooner.
The tool zajac sells is a nice stick of brass and while handy for setting gaps it is more generally a reedworking tool. I have 2 of them so I can work on draw and blow reeds simultaneously. Sleigh does a good one also. Of course you can make your own
|
hvyj
3357 posts
Jun 28, 2017
9:35 AM
|
Yeah, Andrew's tool is useful for all sorts of things I don't know how to do.
After watching a couple of YouTube videos and talking to a couple of experienced harp techs, after some triaI and error I sorta developed my own approach to gapping which may not be optimum, but it seems to work for me. For example, I don't plink except to listen to determine if a reed is fractured or binding against the plate. I'm under the impression that one is suppposed to plink, but I really don't understand what the whole plinking thing is about.
When I test the response of a reed to determine if the gap is right I don't just blow, draw, bend and play scales with varying degrees of breath force. I also play lines or melodies from tunes I know which involve that hole. I find that moving to a note the way you do when you are actually playing something defined sometimes works the reeds little differently that just testing them does, and sometimes the gap needs to be adjusted accordingly.
Now, I've never heard about adjusting gaps for resonance so it may not be accepted practice, but it is something I regularly do. I don't OB, so I don't need to gap particularly tight. I do play with a relatively strong attack (but I produce airflow from the diaphragm with an open throat and dropped jaw, so I am not very hard on harps) accordingly, my gaps are set a little higher than some players prefer. Anyway, I find that sometimes a gap that otherwise responds just fine produces a thinner or weaker tone than I prefer unless I open the gap a little wider. That seems to improve the resonance and fatten the tone a little. This is especially so with respect to the 5 hole and 7 hole reeds.
I'm not necessarily recommending any of this. It's just some things I've come up withover the years that seem to work ok for me, but I don't know if they are right or wrong. If any of my harps need repairs or tuning I generally hire a qualified tech to do it for me. But I do adjust gaps myself and when necessary I do what I can to clear a jammed or frozen reed which sometimes means centering it. That's what the feeler gauge is used for. FWIW.
Last Edited by hvyj on Jun 28, 2017 10:01 AM
|
Gnarly
2250 posts
Jun 28, 2017
11:00 AM
|
hvyj wrote:
I really don't understand what the whole plinking thing is about.
Plinks centers the reed in the slot, and can shake loose any debris occluding the slot.
Basically you are playing the harp like an mbira.
|
SuperBee
4764 posts
Jun 28, 2017
1:45 PM
|
If you are tuning, if you just file, say, then play the reed without plinking it often will take a while to settle to its new pitch. Plinking seems to bring it there.
When gapping you need to plink to determine where the reed is actually sitting. The difference you appear to make may be very temporary. For sure the true test is how it plays, but they are fairly predictable from eyeballing.
|
ScottK
107 posts
Jun 29, 2017
4:24 AM
|
Thanks for all the great info all!
hvyj-
"When I test the response of a reed to determine if the gap is right I don't just blow, draw, bend and play scales with varying degrees of breath force. I also play lines or melodies from tunes I know which involve that hole."
Thanks for this tip. When I was working on bends on the upper holes yesterday I also realized that if I played in first position- melodies- it helped- the I saw your post. Good one!
|
Irish Soul
16 posts
Jun 29, 2017
7:59 PM
|
Doesn't plinking also release potential energy stored in the metal after an adjustment so it doesn't spring back to pre adjustment specs as it settles? or am I way off base on that?
|
SuperBee
4765 posts
Jun 29, 2017
10:27 PM
|
I donNt think you are off base at all.
I dunno about the description of potential energy, sounds reasonable, but for sure you need the reed to settle into its new position.
And the same applies when tuning. Takes a few plinks to settle in
|
